resources: Training (Coaches, books and web articles)

[AndyI]

I've never dabbled in supplements before, but give how much difference to my mood, energy and general well being 6 week of keto did for me, I'm considering all options.

Seems like low dose creatine is reasonably regarded for power aspects, and beta-alanine for the 1-3 min endurance. Does it matter where you get it from? Any good online shops to trust?

I'd suggest 'Myprotein' - Decent products, frequent deals, quick delivery. Never any issues for me. As well as power & endurance, I'd also suggest creatine may assist with recovery (along with the right carb / protein balance).... potential placebo-ic affect...

 

[Fultonius]

Thanks. Ended up buying from Bulk as they seemed to have a 80% off deal on some of the items so gave that a bash. I'll keep myprotein in mind for next time.

Bulking is *not* what I need so hopefully that's not the end result :lol:

 

[teestub]

A lot of people put on 1-3kg on creatine due to water retention in the muscles, so a bit of bulking may ensue!

 

[Paul B]

A lot of people put on 1-3kg on creatine due to water retention in the muscles, so a bit of bulking may ensue!

For reference, I saw this in a recent video from the EF Coach (cycling) suggesting it was a % of bodyweight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7j4BZM9oic&t=355s

 

[Fultonius]

A lot of people put on 1-3kg on creatine due to water retention in the muscles, so a bit of bulking may ensue!

I believe the dose recommended now is much lower. I need to look more into how/when is best to use it. My original thought were more about using it during a heavy training block* to promote more adaptation and support recovery. Seem like the anecdotal is that it's not beneficial for sport climbing performance unless it's maybe a very bouldery route!


* the key bit that I actually pull the finger out and DO the heavy training blocks...

 

[jwi]

Anecdotically, I know a bunch of sport-climbers who've tried Creatine and I know no-one who concluded that it was worth it. But with a good double-blinded unsponsered study on a sport-climbing cohort where the outcome variable is measured in climbing grades I could be convinced to suplement it.

 

[Fultonius]

Anecdotically, I know a bunch of sport-climbers who've tried Creatine and I know no-one who concluded that it was worth it. But with a good double-blinded unsponsered study on a sport-climbing cohort where the outcome variable is measured in climbing grades I could be convinced to suplement it.

Hmmm.... glad it was cheap!

 

[jwi]

Yeah, there are not many downsides to try it. Maybe you are different than the people I know?

(I try to avoid as much ultraprocessed stuff as I can, and I am unlikely to make an exception for ultra processed stuff that is clearly not essential.)

 

[Duncan campbell]

In contrast to this I have taken Creatine for a few years (currently not) but I have felt the benefits of it… Redpointed my hardest routes whilst taking it, onsighted my hardest trad routes, bouldered my hardest also.

I have a manual labour job and it makes me feel better a lot of the time, less tired. Helps keep me feeling snappy. And certainly good when training. Might switch to using it more in winter and less in summer possibly…

 

[slab_happy]

Conversely, I found it really fucked with my head and made me intensely and miserably irritable, but I have a weird brain and a track record of paradoxical reactions to meds.

It seems like there's decent evidence that for a lot of people it's helpful for mental health and brain health.

 

[Fultonius]

Wowzers, seems like a real roll of the dice here!

 

[slab_happy]

Wowzers, seems like a real roll of the dice here!

Eh, wouldn't especially say so; I am prone to getting freaky rare reactions to things.

I've Googled and found a small number of other people mentioning that they found it increased anger and/or worsened depression, so it definitely can happen, but it's not super-common.

Seems to be much more likely to be positive for people, or positive but with the potential trade-off of some water retention, or at worst it doesn't do that much.

And it was a pretty rapid and obvious "oh wow I feel VILE, better stop taking that then" reaction, so no harm done except for a week of me feeling shit (and an extremely small expenditure of money).

I honestly wouldn't advise people not to give it a shot just because of my experiences -- just illustrating the diversity of responses.

Most things that can provide chemical support for mood stuff will also fuck with some people (e.g. every antidepressant ever), because brains are weird like that. So in that sense, it is a roll of the dice, but it seems like the odds with creatine are fairly decent; I'm just unlucky.

 

[Fultonius]

(I try to avoid as much ultraprocessed stuff as I can, and I am unlikely to make an exception for ultra processed stuff that is clearly not essential.)

I had to go and refresh my understanding of ultraprocessed foods as I'm generally trying to avoid them as much as possible too, and it would be annoying to then go and consume more for the porported benefit of performance....

Interestingly , as pure amino acids neither creatine or beta alanine (from a quick Google) seem to be in the UPF group, as the body produces them.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons they might not be that good for you term (how they are produced, traces of nasty shit in them etc.) but for the usual issue of UPFs, I'm not sure they count?

Very happy to be shown the light here though!

 

[jwi]

I don't have time enough to figure out exactly which powder food might be good or bad for me, so I just avoid them all.

I'm sure powder XXX is super good for me and is totally safe and would make me climb 8c without me learning how to climb better, but I just don't want to spend mental bandwidth on figuring out this.

I do enjoy trying to figure out how to climb better though.

YMMV.

 

[teestub]

I had to go and refresh my understanding of ultraprocessed foods as I'm generally trying to avoid them as much as possible too, and it would be annoying to then go and consume more for the porported benefit of performance....

Interestingly , as pure amino acids neither creatine or beta alanine (from a quick Google) seem to be in the UPF group, as the body produces them.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons they might not be that good for you term (how they are produced, traces of nasty shit in them etc.) but for the usual issue of UPFs, I'm not sure they count?

Very happy to be shown the light here though!

I think they defy classification as such because they’re supplements, not a food. I think you’d be hard pressed to argue that a food that was entirely lab synthesised (or like some BCAA have human hair as a feed stock!) and comes to you in the form of a white powder are anything other than a UPF! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification

 

[Fultonius]

True, they're more like vitamin d pills. Body produces and/or consumes it naturally, and then with supplements it gets added.

@JWI - totally get it. I'm the same in many ways and it's why I've never bothered looking into it in the past - just too much effort to reward and easier to spend that time climbing!

I heard about beta alanine on a podcast, looked up some papers where it was tested on climbers and though - fuck it, try it one training block and see.

 

[slab_happy]

Also a supplement (or even something like protein powder) is going to make up a very very small percentage of your diet, when you consider it in terms of grams or as calories, relative to the weight/caloric value of all the other stuff you eat.

So IMHO whether it qualifies as a UPF or not is fairly irrelevant -- makes way more sense to focus on UPFs that make up a much bigger proportion of your diet and try to replace those with less processed options.

 

[stone]

Isn't monosodium glutamate (the flavour enhancer) also just an amino acid?

Ricin is "just protein".

 

[Fultonius]

What's your point, caller?

My point was, in case it's not clear - I don't think they should be considered UPFs in as much as they are not food. Thst doesn't make them good or bad.

They may be good or bad, I guess time will tell.

However, unlike Ricin and MSG, they are naturally produced in the body.

 

[stone]

Our body contains plenty of glutamate and also sodium ions, and that is all MSG is, once dissolved.

My point is that even something naturally produced in the body can be harmful if ingested in a concentrated/purified form.

My impression is that idea of "avoiding UPFs" basically entails just ingesting stuff as close as possible to what we evolved to eat. Eating plant and animal material that has had minimal processing means that we get the components of that in the appropriate ratios and so have what we and our gut flora have evolved to deal with.