Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S)
- Thread starter Simon Lee
- Start date
Help Support UKBouldering.com:
Re: just let them get on with it, I can attest that some folk with eating disorders make some pretty poor decisions.
Re: Duncan’s point, almost by definition to get to the very top you have to be uniquely obsessed. Which is why we’re generally won over by people who seem genuinely nice people with no edge… that are still utterly, utterly brilliant at what they do.
Re: Duncan’s point, almost by definition to get to the very top you have to be uniquely obsessed. Which is why we’re generally won over by people who seem genuinely nice people with no edge… that are still utterly, utterly brilliant at what they do.
Duncan campbell
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 809
So, what is it your saying exactly...?
Fiend said:
I'd it really though? Who are the incredible athletic performers who sacrificed their well being? Tennis big 3, Usain Bolt, Serena Williams, Messi, Fraser-Pryce ? The ultimate athletic performance should mean managing your well being alongside the competing stresses of pushing your body to its limits.
I wonder whether there is a risk with these lower profile sports like climbing (gymnastics similarly?) to in some ways treat the athletes as replaceable objects to be pushed to or past there limits and swapped out if they break. Compared to major sports like tennis or football where the value of the athlete is such that most people involved have a buy in to keeping them healthy and performing to their potential for the longer term.
I think the "athletic performance is more valuable than well-being” issue is an interesting one.
As a whole people do put a high value on athletic performance and are certainly willing for our top athletes to be highly obsessive if it results in wins/trophies/medals. For example I can remember reading that Daily Thompson used to train on Christmas Day, as his competitors would be spending the day with their families, do he was getting an extra days training over them. And I recall a commentator during a Mo Farah race mentioning that his wife was due to give birth, but if she went into labour before the race, would not be telling Mo, do he was not distracted from his run.
Can you imagine another profession of hobby where such behaviour would be tolerated, never mind lauded? "Look love don't tell me if the baby comes, I'm really close on this 8B, and conditions look really good today."
As a whole people do put a high value on athletic performance and are certainly willing for our top athletes to be highly obsessive if it results in wins/trophies/medals. For example I can remember reading that Daily Thompson used to train on Christmas Day, as his competitors would be spending the day with their families, do he was getting an extra days training over them. And I recall a commentator during a Mo Farah race mentioning that his wife was due to give birth, but if she went into labour before the race, would not be telling Mo, do he was not distracted from his run.
Can you imagine another profession of hobby where such behaviour would be tolerated, never mind lauded? "Look love don't tell me if the baby comes, I'm really close on this 8B, and conditions look really good today."
Being really good at a sport is surely never going to be healthy, neither mentally or physically. That doesn't mean that some limits shouldn't be in place though to protect athletes though, whether that's around drugs or around issues like RED-S
T_B
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,110
What an odd thing to say. There are loads of really good athletes who are no doubt on balance healthy. Injury is par for the course for pros, but you can say the same for amateurs in many sports (eg running, climbing).
Maybe Ondra would be better off sat on the sofa??
Maybe Ondra would be better off sat on the sofa??
Maybe I'm phrasing badly, I guess I don't mean that it's impossible to be an elite athlete and be "healthy", but that being an elite athlete is inherently likely to be "unhealthy" in some way. A bit like smoking is unhealthy, but you might still smoke and live until 90 or not smoke and die of lung cancer at 50.
A few examples:
https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12321/12711929/study-finds-higher-neurodegenerative-disease-risk-for-international-rugby-players-dementia-motor-neurone-disease-more-likely
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/57/1/33
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7520548/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8870309/
A few examples:
https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12321/12711929/study-finds-higher-neurodegenerative-disease-risk-for-international-rugby-players-dementia-motor-neurone-disease-more-likely
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/57/1/33
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7520548/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8870309/
Yes. Same with banning PEDs - it's a way to protect athletes from themselves (or the worst parts of themselves, or pressure to do things that are very bad for them, or however you want to frame it).Bradders said:
Liamhutch89
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,262
Dac said:
Too fucking right! The kid can wait.
Gritter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2011
- Messages
- 180
Why not let them get on with it in a supportive and affirming manner? Coaches could facilitate the process by using regular weight checks, body fat ratios and measurements of the upper arm and thigh circumference. I for one stand by my body dysmorphic and anorexic brothers and sisters, worried parents can be reassured that 'the science' backs up a 100% affirmative approach to extreme weight loss. It will be important for all coaches to remember that questioning or challenging the beliefs of any individual identifying a 5 stone underweight gluten intolerant fat person, will be frowned upon.
Wasn't it Daley Thompson not Daily? :coffee:
Wasn't it Daley Thompson not Daily? :coffee:
Fiend
Whut
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2004
- Messages
- 13,750
I meant for climbing in particular, so yes the examples you give for more established, not-necessarily-power-to-weight-driven sports will be different.IanP said:
I am partly playing devil's advocate here of course. But then who are we to deny people their ultimate climbing performance...
Dac said:
mrjonathanr
Getting fatter, not fitter.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2008
- Messages
- 5,463
Gritter said:
Have you the slightest idea how problematical this is in relation to young people, especially girls? :wall:
If you have nothing worthwhile to contribute, don’t.
moose
el flaco lento
The latest Science of Sport podcast reported that a few sporting bodies (UK Swimming etc) have banned that kind of monitoring as it can trigger disordered eating - athletes starving themselves during the days prior to measurement day.
Fiend said:
I picked more mainstream sports since it's probably significantly more difficult to reach / stay at the top for those than a niche sport like climbing.
However to answer your point, Ondra and Garnbret seem to have managed to balance ultimate performance and health over an extended period.
Understand that there's an element of devil's advocate but as others have pointed even if there was any merit in this argument it would have to be considered in the light of how much you really believe athletes (particularly young and up and coming) can make rational informed decisions to cause themselves harm unaffected by external factors.
