Recovery, Sleep and getting older

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DavidM

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
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Hi all,

Hoping to see if anyone can help with some wisdom and experience. I've noticed in recent years recovery isn't as good despite doing the usual things and living clean. I'm now 38 with two kids which is to be expected I guess but i'm always looking to improve sleep and recovery. I train in the evening usually between 5pm-7.30pm exclusively bouldering and board climb, eat after and regularly get my 8 hours sleep kids permitting. The thought of training at 4am won't work for me as I have the kids before work.

Outside of the normal recommended advice stretching, massage, adequate nutrition / refuelling, extra sleep, shorter sessions, avoiding alcohol and excess caffeine etc does anyone have any specific tips that have helped them or moved the needle?

Things that have moved the needle for me

-Not training too close to bed time i.e finishing session by latest 7.30pm and in bed by 10.30pm.
-Cold showers in morning
-Hot showers after evening climbing session
-Supplementing with glycine to lower body temperature after training in the evening
-Supplementing with Magnesium in the evening
-Drinking a lot more water after session so your hydrated throughout the night (Piss a lot during the night though)

I know there is a lot of info online but good to hear if anything worked for people that might help me and others aiming to get the most out of the training they are putting in.

thanks in Advance
 
How many times a week are you currently training? Do you do the same volume of training each week, or do you have deload weeks or a schedule of easier and harder weeks?

I'm finding I need to spend more time on 'supplementary' exercises as I get older - stretching/mobility/strength etc. Partly this is rehabbing or trying to prevent re-occurrence of injuries, some of it is to address weaknesses, some is just as a 'recovery' session - something relatively easy that keeps me moving. Exclusively bouldering and board climbing breaks me.
 
Family and work often induce deload or rest weeks but I don't formally structure them no.

My recent sessions have been as below as I had my second child recently and not had too much time to get to the gym or go outdoors

I do 3 sessions a week usually no longer than 2hr 15mins. I spend the first 40 mins finger training no hangs from ground deadlift style and in between hangs I do weighted pull ups / chin ups and some mobility stuff in between. I've found doing regular finger boarding has helped keep my fingers healthy and pulling from floor has helped shoulder issues that seem to occur with overhead hanging.

Rest for a bit and then 1hr of board climbing on home wall for instance (this can be limit bouldering 5-8 moves or easier session of volume of easier problems that are still fairly hard) 3-5mins rest between attempts.

After that 30 min circuit of antagonists strength stuff to keep healthy and balanced. 3 sets of each. Weighted dips on rings, One arm shoulder scapula pulls downs, Reverse wrist curls, Single arm rows with rings, Y's or T's with rings.
 
Sounds reasonably balanced. Are you taking into account that the load on you, on your nervous system, includes the training plus all the other stressors- work, family, sufficient sleep or not etc.
Recovery from any climbing load sits in an overall context.
 
I'm 46 with 2 young kids. Sounds good what you're doing, more than I do with supplements etc. I'll train 3/4 times a week, usually on the board. If training power/strength, keep the volume as low as possible, and no more than 1 1/2hr session. Aim massively at quality not quantity. Try to not wake up sore from anything. The ideal regime for me...
Up at 8, kids sort etc.
Work at 9, usually on feet all day and physical work.
I eat tea at 5 with kids.
Power nap 30-45mins on settee.
Kids in bed.
On the board for 8.30-9. Cut off time is 9.30
Do session.
Eat again & drink loads (preferably not beer)
Bed for 12-1.00.
7-8 hours good sleep.
Rinse and repeat.
Days off I stretch for 45 mins in eve, certainly helps recovery, but essential for old back injuries.

The power nap tends to work really well, as I'm pretty fresh on the board. Without I'm groggy and clunky and at risk of injury.
This has been my ritual for over 2 years now and I'm as strong if not stronger than my early 20's. Certainly takes a day extra to recover but I expect that now. Pretty easy to gauge when I've over done it, as I wake up feeling like I've just finished the session the night before.
Endurance, especially on the board, is another ball game entirely. I find switching to training 2 or 3 days on then 4 off works loads better, to get decent recovery. Otherwise I just work myself into the ground and grind to a halt. For years I did day on day off, this worked fine, not now.

Also can't express the 'importance of being idle' enough. For me kids, physical job, training, head still at 30, body a bit further along, got to remember to stop when you can. Save it for the board.
 
Here's a quick one - take a bog standard 20mg zinc supplement if you aren't already. For protecting testosterone depletion as you age. Drop in T linked to various ailments from mid-late 30s onward, including poor recovery, poor sleep and general fatigue/lack of response to training.
 
Thats interesting post Probes and similar to mine apart from waking / sleep timing. I regularly stretch for 45 mins as well that helps. Roll out the back and glutes daily etc which really helps lower back.

-Are you just bouldering or route climbing as well?
-The power nap do you fall asleep or just resting before the board session?
-The board endurance training schedule you mention- 2/3 days on and then 4 off. Is this endurance for bouldering or for route climbing. If bouldering what endurance exercises do you prefer or found successful? Do you have 4 days complete rest in this cycle?

- What does a boulders de-load week look like in practice.? Is it same intensity but halving the amounts of sessions? Or do you dial back both.?

thanks petejh I thought I would be covered with a decent clean diet including enough meat and shellfish to cover the zinc requirements. Will consider and try that.
 
I don't think that a well maintained body of a non-sedentary 50 year-old is much different than one of a 30 year-old. But don't get injured. Ever.

However, I would not take any supplements* without a blood test showing particular deficiencies. Varied healthy non-insane eating is much better imnsho


*(Other than B12 if vegetarian)
 
Totally agree jwi about a sensible diet and I feel I have all the trace elements/ macros are covered nicely and eat really well. I have found that the glycine helps lower my body temperature after hard sessions in the evening. My sleep is compromised from hard sessions with warm body for few hours after and I was waking frequently with irritability. No problem getting to sleep or back to sleep. Additionally loads of hydration, natural fibre bedding that allows heat to escape and the glycine before bed and occasionally the magnesium helps I've found.

Easily said than done "not getting injured" when your pushing yourself and really enjoy training.

Any tips on that front?
 
Sounds like you're doing most things right. Are you eating enough? A calorie deficit will trash your recovery more than any supplement can undo. I've found that very gradually increasing my calorie intake over a long time seems to have increased my metabolic rate and energy levels. I now maintain my weight on around 3,000kCals per day (and I work from home on a PC).


jwi said:
However, I would not take any supplements* without a blood test showing particular deficiencies. Varied healthy non-insane eating is much better imnsho

*(Other than B12 if vegetarian)

Creatine monohydrate? Very few people can max that out with varied eating and it's one of the few supplements with tons of evidence supporting its efficacy.

petejh said:
Here's a quick one - take a bog standard 20mg zinc supplement if you aren't already. For protecting testosterone depletion as you age. Drop in T linked to various ailments from mid-late 30s onward, including poor recovery, poor sleep and general fatigue/lack of response to training.

If / when I have issues relating to low testosterone I'll probably begin injecting it!
 
DavidM said:
Easily said than done "not getting injured" when your pushing yourself and really enjoy training.

Any tips on that front?
I have a few hard rules: any move with possible bad falls is out during training. So no heel hooking on steep terrain except on the first two moves, no sideways jumps above the first or possibly second move, no hard moves towards the top of the wall in a modern indoor bouldering gym. For sport climbing I always pre-clip the second draw and the third if practicable as I have no intention of ever hitting the ground.

(Addendum: I more-or-less stopped outdoor bouldering as I don't like ground falls. This is not a big sacrifice for me as the local bouldering is not great compared to the cragging. I imagined that if I did more outdoor bouldering I would not hesitate to toprope boulders if necessary.)

During training I never do a dynamic move where the feet cut loose if I am to weak to completely control the target hold.

For acute injuries I immediately stop the session if I get sharp pain in the fingers, elbows or shoulders. No exceptions, no excuses. It sucks when I pay a 15 euro entry fee and have to cut the visit short directly after the warm-up, but injuries suck more.

I have almost never gotten overuse injuries in twenty-five years of climbing, possibly because I am lazy, so I would not know how to manage them.

Liamhutch89 said:
Creatine monohydrate? Very few people can max that out with varied eating and it's one of the few supplements with tons of evidence supporting its efficacy.

I know lots of climbers who have tried to supplement creatine, but I have yet to meet someone who concluded that it was worth it. I might change my mind if there was a double blind study that concluded that supplementing it improved performance in competition climbing (difficulty) or outdoor sport climbing.
 
Liamhutch89 said:
Are you eating enough?

Well I enjoy food, cooking and eat well so don't hold back in that regard. I exclusively cook from scratch with adequate protein and veggies. I'm 5ft 11 and weight around 77kg fairly lean.

It's not especially the recovery for the next session but the impact of a hard session on my nervous system and the impact on sleep quality that hampers the recovery.
 
DavidM said:
It's not especially the recovery for the next session but the impact of a hard session on my nervous system and the impact on sleep quality that hampers the recovery.

Have you tried non-sleep deep rest type exercises? They are really good for calming down an over-wrought nervous system. Also box breathing or “coherent breathing” exercises could help.
 
During lockdown I was training 4-5 days a week (I was 51 then) and basically 'got used' to aching at night and in the morning. After a few months it didn't seem to bother me so much. That sounds a bit weird - but is pretty much how it was.

I've knocked down the intensity now (2-3 times a week) and have no real problems. Like you - anything too late (past 9pm) makes sleep harder.

I did find I'd alternate what I pushed training wise. So one session would be (for example) one arm hangs, assisted one arm pullups, weighted two arm pull ups. Next one might be a very fingery session on the board - perhaps some assisted one arm hangs on crimps. Next one would be more regular climbing focusing on big dynamic moves on fairly good holds (etc..).

Final point - climbing is f*cking brutal on the body. I'm now doing other non strength based exercise 2-3 times a week and the recovery from that (despite it working my CV quite alot) is piss easy compared to climbing!!

n=1 etc..
 
I can manage to boulder on my board 3 or 4 times a week either limit bouldering or volume. I also cycle which depending on the time of year can 6 hour plus rides with a couple of short interval sessions.
But the big but is I don’t work being retired for the last 4 years. The rest of my days is a bit of cleaning, cooking and walking my daughters dogs at the moment.
Yes I feel tired, beat up and weary at times but it doesn’t seem to stop me. I also drink red wine to excess.
 
so the best thing to do for recovery is stop working? :-\ it has a certain appeal...
 
mrjonathanr said:
so the best thing to do for recovery is stop working? :-\

Wasn’t this Maccy D’s advice in that 9/10 book? Sacrifice everything, leave your wife, quit work, sleep at the climbing wall, eat lard etc.
 
No just drink more red wine.

Then the wife will leave with the kids and you probably lose your job. But it won’t be your fault that you ended up as a climbing bum.
 
I'm 47 with 2 young kids and most of my climbing consists of board climbing. I've tried most things over the years - even bought an acrappi top for anyone who remembers that scam! Come to the conclusion that sleep is by far the most important thing and don't bother with any supplements anymore. For me changing to training at lunchtime has made the biggest change as any evening training seems to totally ruin my sleep. I'm lucky in that I have Flexi time, work from home and have a board. If it is at all possible I would give it a try.
 

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