Papy Onsight 'improved'

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jwi

jwi

Distorting facts posted on instagram
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Catsoyannis reports that Papy Onsight in Verdon has been 'depolished' by the use of Sika.

https://youtu.be/6nBex5FBJDA?si=bjuLsrF_Nm_gDHuo

This is a worrying trend in France. When old climbers no longer get up routes they have done a million times and decide it's due to polish and that they must "fix this" by smearing sika cement on theholds/feet. It happened to a lot of routes on Anglars in Saint Antonin as well. At the time I thought it was mostly hilarious. Made some of the routes piss. Of course, if it would have been my project I would have been absolutely furious
 
:eek: That's horrifying. I'll never climb POS, but well remember just what a touchstone climb it was back in the 80s, and what a big deal it was when some Sheffielders returned with that coveted ascent in the bag.

Why is it that people seek to bring things down to their level, rather than just accept that somethings are simply too hard for them... :-\
 
I dunno, the end result of all frequent limestone climbing is polish.

At some point were either going to have to accept the inevitable (climbing quality inexorably degrading), or we need to have a sensible discussion about how best to deal with it. (acid etch, sandblasting, superglue with sand etc.) personally I'd go for etching over sika, but I can imagine there could be a way of precipitating out new limestone from solution? Maybe...?
 
Horrible indeed. I can remember that the holds were quite polished when trying it ~10 years ago. Yes, that is what happens to limestone classics. But I simply cannot comprehend how anyone could imagine that smearing everything in Sika would make for a better experience -- quite the contrary!
The fact that this happens to such a historic route and in the Verdon especially is simply mind-boggling.
 
Looks like they've mostly coated jugs in the sika too?? Unless the scale is very off, but the sikaed stuff looks pretty incut?
 
No-tex holds on bouldering competitions are great for spectators. Glacial or wind polished granite gets appreciated. We just need to extend that attitude to polish that has come about from a route having a deep climbing history. If it means a climb needs upgrading, just up the grade. If it means it becomes more conditions fickle, accommodate that and choose a cold day or whatever.
 
stone said:
No-tex holds on bouldering competitions are great for spectators. Glacial or wind polished granite gets appreciated. We just need to extend that attitude to polish that has come about from a route having a deep climbing history. If it means a climb needs upgrading, just up the grade. If it means it becomes more conditions fickle, accommodate that and choose a cold day or whatever.
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I agree with the sentiment of this. We just need to accept polish. Yeah it’s not that nice to climb on but it adds another layer of challenge. Most routes polished up long ago and probably aren’t getting worse so let’s just get on with it.
 
Duncan campbell said:
I agree with the sentiment of this. We just need to accept polish. Yeah it’s not that nice to climb on but it adds another layer of challenge. Most routes polished up long ago and probably aren’t getting worse so let’s just get on with it.
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Another in agreement, tbh where are these routes that have been completely ruined by polish? Consenting Adults was polished to a fine sheen 20 years ago but still gets done regularly these days.

Some limestone seems to polish significantly more quickly than other places, e.g. parts of Chulilla vs Siurana, but people are still climbing the routes and if you don't like it there's plenty more rock to be explored. I feel pretty strongly that attempts to restore polished limestone by whatever method are misguided at best.
 
Wood FT said:
Have they done it well? If so, brilliant
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I have climbed on other routes retextured with sika, and wasn't too impressed. Made the routes a lot easier though. The general mood among people climbing these routes was fury.

Limestone routes tend to first get easier with time as new sequences are found and shoes become better, then harder as holds fall off or become polished. Maybe we should just accept this?
 
IanP said:
Another in agreement, tbh where are these routes that have been completely ruined by polish? Consenting Adults was polished to a fine sheen 20 years ago but still gets done regularly these days.
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As someone who's spent far too much time at Malham, my view is that polish is just nature's way of encouraging me to do more core exercises.
 
That’s just vandalism.

I tried (and failed) on this c1988.There’s only one hold where polish would make a big difference (the slopey jug for the right hand) as the rest are all pockets or small edges. You’d just need to be stronger to hold it. I can see how the finishing break would be more difficult to hold, but it required strength and accuracy to hit it right anyway.

Whoever did this should have accepted it’s too hard for them and try another route, not wreck it for everyone else.
 
A polished hold is the stable endpoint of usage wear on limestone. Once polished the hold doesn't change much with use, or at least the pace of change is very slow. Any 'solution' to polish ends up disturbing this and restarting fairly rapid change back towards the polished endstate. Trying to fix this seems pointless and damaging. I say that as someone who favours proactive work which is actually effective, such as stabiliser on soft sandstone.
 
jwi said:
Catsoyannis reports that Papy Onsight in Verdon has been 'depolished' by the use of Sika.

https://youtu.be/6nBex5FBJDA?si=bjuLsrF_Nm_gDHuo

This is a worrying trend in France. When old climbers no longer get up routes they have done a million times and decide it's due to polish and that they must "fix this" by smearing sika cement on theholds/feet. It happened to a lot of routes on Anglars in Saint Antonin as well. At the time I thought it was mostly hilarious. Made some of the routes piss. Of course, if it would have been my project I would have been absolutely furious
Click to expand...

Truly shocking….. the parallels with old climbers sticking peg bolts in classics seems quite apt….. the Ken is strong within me!! When I grow old I’m hoping my ego will allow me to let go.
 
What Bonjoy said. People have attempted to rejuvenate polished holds at least as far back as the 1970s. Tom Proctor dabbed hydrochloric acid on holds at Stoney Middleton attempting to etch some texture into them. In the Avon Gorge one of the easier classics (I can't recall which) has a foothold with an array of dimples that look like they were pecked through the polish with a chisel. Both methods destructive and very temporary.

This is 'additive', a bit like grip tape on steps to reduce the chance of slipping. Parallels with making life easier for the infirm!
 

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