Megoswad

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I have the impression that they are a lot worse. Especially at onsighting. (For flash, I don't think the level has gone down. That much.) I am not the only one. Pierre Delas wrote a jeremiad five years ago: https://fanatic-climbing.com/ou-est-passe-le-a-vue-what-happened-to-onsighting/

Interestingly not true for women. According to Remus's list only 6 men have onsighted 8c+ or harder and the last new entrant was Domen Škofic in 2015. 4 women have now onsighted 8c and 6 of the the 7 times this has been done were in the 2020s.
 
It is remarkable that four out of seven female 8c onsights happend in Oliana.

Pendandic note: I don't envy Remus for maintaining lists like this with all the complications. I noticed that Ms. Durif's ascent of Léon is in as 8b+, but I know Cathy Wagner took 8a+ for it (probably a bit harsh, but it is Cathy: if someone knows it is her). Maybe better to take all grades at face-value as they are reported at the time. But then again, grimper magazine never reported on the onsights of Durif during the 00s, so I don't think they were reported at the time (except by the very unreliable internet sites that just repeat climber's self published ascents). And to keep track of how the difficulties of routes change over time with breakage is hard enough on local crags.
 
It is remarkable that four out of seven female 8c onsights happend in Oliana.

Pendandic note: I don't envy Remus for maintaining lists like this with all the complications. I noticed that Ms. Durif's ascent of Léon is in as 8b+, but I know Cathy Wagner took 8a+ for it (probably a bit harsh, but it is Cathy: if someone knows it is her). Maybe better to take all grades at face-value as they are reported at the time. But then again, grimper magazine never reported on the onsights of Durif during the 00s, so I don't think they were reported at the time (except by the very unreliable internet sites that just repeat climber's self published ascents). And to keep track of how the difficulties of routes change over time with breakage is hard enough on local crags.
Good spot, I've downgraded Leon to 8b which is the most common suggestion on 8a.nu.

Yes it is tricky keeping track of hold breakages and the like, and there is always that difficulty about when a breakage is significant enough to change the grade of something.
 
Good spot, I've downgraded Leon to 8b which is the most common suggestion on 8a.nu.

Yes it is tricky keeping track of hold breakages and the like, and there is always that difficulty about when a breakage is significant enough to change the grade of something.
I guess it's always going to be impossible to do perfectly - but huge kudos for at least trying (and doing a brilliant job from my armchair), even if there do end up being occasional inconsistencies it's a superb resource for the community and personally I'm very grateful for your efforts.
 
Megos has done 5 9a 1st go (flash or onsight) Ondra has done 7, including one 9a+. There is clearly a difference, but it is not massive.

Sometimes the differnence between flash and onsight is massive, for instance when Ondra flashed Super Crackinette and someone demonstratred all the moves and even gave alternative methods on sections (on a fairly short route).

Sometimes the difference is almost nothing. When Matilda flashed Kale Boroka she had previously belayed her friend. He couldn't do the moves but gave some suggestions on how he imagined she would do some of the moves.
 
Megos has done 5 9a 1st go (flash or onsight) Ondra has done 7, including one 9a+. There is clearly a difference, but it is not massive.

Sometimes the differnence between flash and onsight is massive, for instance when Ondra flashed Super Crackinette and someone demonstratred all the moves and even gave alternative methods on sections (on a fairly short route).

True in one way, but for a different perspective Megos has onsighted 3 routes of 8c+ and above compared with 25 by Ondra. Megos' 1st go efforts are obviously the second best in the world but still have far less breadth than Ondra's, any clues as to why this might be?
 
True in one way, but for a different perspective Megos has onsighted 3 routes of 8c+ and above compared with 25 by Ondra. Megos' 1st go efforts are obviously the second best in the world but still have far less breadth than Ondra's, any clues as to why this might be?
Some people just like to train in the gym all the time ...
 

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