Leviathan etc

[spidermonkey09]

I might say some nice things about Remus in the hope that he keeps me in his list at 8C... Still got an ego... Only chance of the grade etc

Also now considerably less likely to be repeated with your sequence so unlikely to get downgraded :bounce:

 

[northern yob]

Agreed he’s climbed the line, albeit by a whack sequence….. quite the challenge to repeat and should defo be recorded so that anyone strong enough and bored enough could have a go…. It would be quite fitting if it got a repeat.

Technically he’s climbed the line, and whilst I was kinda joking I kinda wasn’t… I’m sure it’s left a fairly shit taste, it’s not about the line so much as a mark in the sand that others can test themselves against. And bens ego(as small as it is) has been robbed of that.

 

[teestub]

At least spell his name right if you're going to slag him off. And stop being so snarky and whiney, it's tedious.

Apologies to Dr Peter Robins PhD! And that wasn’t slagging off, it was some attemptedly amusing exaggeration.

 

[Bradders]

I reckon the eliminate "exists" just as much as any eliminate exists and should absolutely be recorded. I love the idea of it as a cautionary tale, even now the resin hold is gone.

 

[monkoffunk]

My unnecessary two cents in an arbitrary contrived field of ethics: The 8C wouldn’t ‘count’ now for whatever it’s worth if someone repeated it. It did ‘count’ at the time of the FA because there was a ‘legitimate’ reason to climb it at that point.

Probably good that the entire thing could just be one single 8B+ now (and as per any bit of rock people can still do what they want to within the bounds of common decency).

(Sorry for all the ‘s)

 

[Fiend]

I might say some nice things about Remus in the hope that he keeps me in his list at 8C... Still got an ego... Only chance of the grade etc

I reckon he can definitely keep you on, maybe as a Now Obsolute Beta ascent / variant :2thumbsup:

 

[yetix]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

 

[monkoffunk]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

I think things can exist in a time and when they evolve you can’t go back. Like if a new hold naturally appears on a problem due to a break it doesn’t make sense for future ascentionists to eliminate just for the grade. One could for the fun or interest or whatever, I’m keen to climb a local problem with the old now obsolete beta for that reason, but I won’t claim a big grade for bad beta. Doesn’t invalidate the effort or tick when the beta was good before the change.

 

[yetix]

But it began life as an eliminate, so can remain an eliminate...

 

[spidermonkey09]

There was a logic behind the eliminate before though, namely to avoid one hold that was largely made of resin. Now that hold has gone, the premise of the eliminate is defunct. Its now avoiding a hold just like all the others, there would be no rationale for avoiding it other than to specifically reclimb Ben's sequence. Its obsolete, effectively.

Most other eliminates would tend to avoid big features (the jug, the shelf, the good rail etc etc) to make it harder. Or in the recent case of Jason's Roof, the big foot block at the start. Imagine a Jason's eliminate that randomly eliminates one of the RH crimps in the roof. Don't think it would catch on, even if it can be said to 'exist' in a metaphysical sense.

 

[36chambers]

the simple solution is just to whack on some resin when gunning for the 8C version and then knock off it at the end of each session :smartass:

 

[X]

There was a logic behind the eliminate … Don't think it would catch on

As indicated by my quote, you conflate two related but different things: (aesthetic) logic and popularity.

The former is entirely subjective and one eliminate is really about as objectively justifiable as any other. Which is to say, not at all.

The latter is objectively measurable but subject to the whims of human nature. Which, these days, means it depends if someone puts up a sexy vid on Insta.

 

[yetix]

There was a logic behind the eliminate before though, namely to avoid one hold that was largely made of resin. Now that hold has gone, the premise of the eliminate is defunct. Its now avoiding a hold just like all the others, there would be no rationale for avoiding it other than to specifically reclimb Ben's sequence. Its obsolete, effectively.

Most other eliminates would tend to avoid big features (the jug, the shelf, the good rail etc etc) to make it harder. Or in the recent case of Jason's Roof, the big foot block at the start. Imagine a Jason's eliminate that randomly eliminates one of the RH crimps in the roof. Don't think it would catch on, even if it can be said to 'exist' in a metaphysical sense.

Can't say I or the many people I've spoken to about this elsewhere agree with that, but will leave ukb to it

 

[36chambers]

But it's not obsolete now in that style, if Ben stays on at 8C anyone else willing to do the same deserves to go on imo.

I agree with this. Not to mention that it might not even be an 8C until it's been confirmed with some repeats. (Not trying to suggest it is misgraded, just that grades are a consensus :hug

 

[spidermonkey09]

As indicated by my quote, you conflate two related but different things: (aesthetic) logic and popularity.

The former is entirely subjective and one eliminate is really about as objectively justifiable as any other. Which is to say, not at all.

The latter is objectively measurable but subject to the whims of human nature. Which, these days, means it depends if someone puts up a sexy vid on Insta.

True. I guess I don't think all eliminates are created equal, but as you say thats a subjective measure.

I think the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I can't see it being very likely at all that people will choose to repeat Ben's version given that the option to repeat the whole line, bottom to top, using all the available holds, where there is no coherent reason to avoid any of those holds, exists. I look forward to someone doing it tomorrow and proving me wrong!

 

[Fultonius]

I'm not sure if I missed this being stated explicitly, but it does seem implied.

What is the easiest line/method in the current state? Would it be the original beta using what's left of the crumbled/resin hold (and hence the eliminate is a bit whack), or is Ben's method now not actually just going to be the easiest way up?

 

[yetix]

Using the remains of the hold (2finger edge) makes the move of the crouch to the normal finish easier than how Ben did it (when eliminating, but harder than how people who used the resin hold before it was smashed off) and also offers something to stand onto at the top as it helps for getting established on the weird undercut I think. I think earlier in the thread Panton suggested it might be 8B+ with everything.

 

[Fultonius]

Cheers, makes sense.

 

[abarro81]

I'm with spider monkey, eliminating resin makes some vague sense. Now it would just be #biggradesforbadbeta

 

[yetix]

Then as 36 said it can't be confirmed at 8C...