Katie Lamb - Box Therapy - First Female 8C+
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Honestly I don't mind if it's 8C or 8C+ I simply pointed out Shawn's comment. However, Woods has had many blocs down and upgraded, because you know grades change with time and more ascents... I simply acknowledged what someone more experienced had said (Shawn)...
As Drew has said on Reddit and in podcasts, grades are more to describe an experience roughly and don't always match up from person to person anyhow.
As Drew has said on Reddit and in podcasts, grades are more to describe an experience roughly and don't always match up from person to person anyhow.
Interesting discussion.
I think it's the top performers that are relevant in the conversation about gender gap, not the breadth.
The fact that the hardest that the top achieving woman has climbed is only a grade different to the equivalent for a man, shows where each gender is in terms of what is physically possible, regardless of how often it has happened.
With much lower participation, you'd expect the women's 'pyramid' to be much slimmer than the mens, and you could even argue that we are further away from the physical limit for women than we are for men, given the smaller pool of participants and that this was much smaller still only quite recently.
I think it's the top performers that are relevant in the conversation about gender gap, not the breadth.
The fact that the hardest that the top achieving woman has climbed is only a grade different to the equivalent for a man, shows where each gender is in terms of what is physically possible, regardless of how often it has happened.
With much lower participation, you'd expect the women's 'pyramid' to be much slimmer than the mens, and you could even argue that we are further away from the physical limit for women than we are for men, given the smaller pool of participants and that this was much smaller still only quite recently.
Duma
Well-Known Member
Not discussed is that for men to push further requires FAs - this is much harder than repeats, and might explain some of the closeness?
Muenchener
Well-Known Member
Teaboy said:
The other - very niche - example that springs to mind is Nicky Spinks & Jasmin Paris in ultra fellrunning
yetix said:
As per usual it depends a bit on how you count, but I'd count 3 women as having climbed 8C: Ashima, Katrina Lehman and Mishka Ishi. Orianne reclimbed Satan i Helvete (Bas) after a hold broke and suggested 8C, but as I understand it subsequent ascents have said 8B+ (maybe with better beta?), and Oriane agreed on reflection. Pretty arbitrary, but I only count 'whole' grades on CH, so if someone gives something a slash I record it as the lower grade, so on CH Jana Švecová's Nova is in at 8B+.
https://climbing-history.org/list/18/strongest-female-boulderers
https://climbing-history.org/climb/2268/satan-i-helvete-(bas)
Liamhutch89
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Dexter said:
It looks like we'd only lose Aidan Roberts from that list of 9 men (and probably not for long).
Muenchener said:
Even more niche is speedy cycling where the world record (184mph) is held by Denise Mueller-Korenek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoUmgMhn2iY
Which seems unusual for a power based sport. Although, judging from that video. I expect logistics and cojones also play a significant role.
remus said:
Thanks Remus, I'd forgotten Timonov and Woods :slap:
I was also counting Oriane as the 4th female 8Cer, didn't realise it'd since been downgraded.
lukeyboy said:
I kind of get where you're coming from on this but personally I'd say breadth is far more important.
Think of it like the gender pay gap; it matters not one jot if a single woman is paid 5% less than the highest paid man, and a handful are paid 5% less than her, if all women are paid 20% less on average than the average man. You could say the pay gap was 5%, but the 20% gap on average is much more significant.
And the same applies here, the gap at the absolute top is now small, but look beneath and it's still extremely wide. In fact, it might even be growing?
Also, in terms of what's "physically possible", from a pure difficulty perspective I think women are perfectly capable of climbing the same grade as men. The style they do it in may end up being different though based on morphological / physiological differences.
Bradders said:
I would think of it as very different to the gender pay gap (though appreciate that might just be my interpretation of the question).
With the gender pay gap, you mainly want to see how the average woman compares to the average man, in which case I agree that breadth is more important than the handful of top performers.
With the the top level of male and female climbing, it is (IMO) the top performers that are most relevant - breadth will inform you on the average standard and other interesting things, but those are different questions.
Bradders said:
I agree anecdotally, but without any evidence it's only really an opinion. Backing this up with some objective(ish) evidence, i.e. top male and female performances, adds a lot to this I think.
crimpinainteasy
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I predict that in the next ten years top women will match the top men in certain styles i.e. techy, flexy, and small edges but a gender gap will remain in problems involving more basic, thuggy and dynamic moves (ie things like the big Island and power of now).
Muenchener
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Hoseyb
Well-Known Member
Really enjoyed the interview, I'm sure it would resonate with many of the off piste boulderer explorers on here
