Insignificant repeats

[RobK]

Picking up on Neil’s comments above, I really wish more people left their logbooks open.

I get that they can feel quite personal, and by having them open there is a tendency to write comments with how they will be perceived by others in mind rather as a truer record of your experience.

However, I find public logbooks a great source of inspiration and information.

Unpopular opinion time, but I don't think a private UKC logbook should be a thing. If you want to have a private log fine, use a notebook or a spreadsheet. Don't go cluttering up a public database with your 'hidden' entries that are of zero use to me.

 

[andy moles]

Picking up on Neil’s comments above, I really wish more people left their logbooks open.

I get that they can feel quite personal, and by having them open there is a tendency to write comments with how they will be perceived by others in mind rather as a truer record of your experience.

However, I find public logbooks a great source of inspiration and information.

Unpopular opinion time, but I don't think a private UKC logbook should be a thing. If you want to have a private log fine, use a notebook or a spreadsheet. Don't go cluttering up a public database with your 'hidden' entries that are of zero use to me.

Cluttered, seriously? A series of simple text rows that read something like Hidden - 30 July 2023 - Lead RP makes a page too cluttered for you? You must absolutely lose your shit on websites that are heavy on ads :lol:

Is it even all that much more useful if the user is not hidden but they don't leave comments? If I have anything to say about a route that might be useful for other people, I leave a comment in Feedback. Seems like a much more helpful approach than wading through lots of personal comments.

I find the idea that you should only be able to make use of an extremely useful and well designed logbook database if you're willing to have all your climbing activities publicly visible bizarre.

 

[RobK]

You must absolutely lose your shit on websites that are heavy on ads :lol:

I lose my shit on a lot of websites, such is the danger of working in UX design!

 

[kingholmesy]

Is it even all that much more useful if the user is not hidden but they don't leave comments? If I have anything to say about a route that might be useful for other people, I leave a comment in Feedback. Seems like a much more helpful approach than wading through lots of personal comments.

I don’t think it should be compulsory to have your logbook open. I do find public logbooks really useful though.

Often it is the comments about people’s personal experiences such as whether they enjoyed the route or found it pumpy or scary etc that I find more interesting and useful, instead of the beta type comments that people add in the feedback section (which tend to be quite boring).

Even if no comment has been left it can be useful to see who it is that has done a route. For example if it is a route that is on my limit but I can see that it has been onsighted by someone climbing at a similar level to me that might encourage me to think it would be feasible for me to attempt.

 

[cheque]

Often it is the comments about people’s personal experiences such as whether they enjoyed the route or found it pumpy or scary etc that I find more interesting and useful, instead of the beta type comments that people add in the feedback section (which tend to be quite boring).

Even if no comment has been left it can be useful to see who it is that has done a route. For example if it is a route that is on my limit but I can see that it has been onsighted by someone climbing at a similar level to me that might encourage me to think it would be feasible for me to attempt.

:agree:

It can be very useful to see when people climbed something as well. You can really use it to learn about the subtleties of annual condition changes on particular routes.

I salute anyone who has their logbook fully public on there. I get so much entertainment and use out of that logbook system.

 

[Fultonius]

I think the feedback feature has a been a great addition as I know a few people I climb with have hidden logbooks, but will post useful updates (not usualy beta, more things like specific protection, loose rock, difficulty compared to other routes etc.). I have an open logbook, and through the years have varied the amount of info I log. Sometimes nothing, sometimes half an essay!

Up in Scotland it's very handy to know if a route might be clean, how hard it is etc.

I'm generally for more info as its very easy to not look of you don't want to know. Not bothered about hidden logbooks, but I do encourage those lurkers to add feedback where appropriate.

 

[duncan]

Great thread title!

I’m also keen on the UKC logbooks for all the reasons described above. If you use them, consider making yours public, especially if you sometimes frequent the off-the-beaten track.

I did a few new routes in my year of living dangerously (1983/4). Two felt worthy of attention, neither got any. One of the two has now fallen down.

The other is a 3 star banger, a safe and onsightable E6 in a spectacular position on a popular crag*. It’s usually dry and required minimal cleaning. It has had one recorded ascent since, in 1995. Ian Parnell may have done it too as he included it in a top 50 UK routes. It's not in recent guidebooks, has seasonal restrictions, and is in a slightly awkward location (despite being, cough, roadside). However, spurred by this thread, I checked again. Hurrah! Some attention in the last couple of years and an enthusiastic review: “Best route I’ve fallen off in cheddar...Get on it. It’s fantastic”. I do hope this encourages more people to try it.

*Our ascent is described as eliminating a rest-point. Since the 'rest' was a belay on a short bolt ladder I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some distance between the start and finish of the rest which just happens to include the hardest climbing!

 

[Neil F]

Wow, I hadn't realised you had liberated West Route Duncan. Chapeau.

Any background on your success? Did it require much preparation? What's the kit like? I'm always interested in the back story to signficant ascents, and your logbook gives little away... :whistle:

I always thought it looked like a bazzing route, though I've yet to set foot on High Rock. In fact done very little in the Gorge, though Paradise Lost was memorable.

 

[kingholmesy]

I’ve yet to set foot on High Rock.

I’m not a massive fan of Cheddar, but that is surely a glaring omission in the CV. :chair:

 

[Hydraulic Man]

Wow, I hadn't realised you had liberated West Route Duncan. Chapeau.

Any background on your success? Did it require much preparation? What's the kit like? I'm always interested in the back story to signficant ascents, and your logbook gives little away... :whistle:

I always thought it looked like a bazzing route, though I've yet to set foot on High Rock. In fact done very little in the Gorge, though Paradise Lost was memorable.

Remember the picture Crocker took that was in Mountain looking down the top pitch that looked incredible. Gordon Jenkin seconding...

 

[Neil F]

I’m not a massive fan of Cheddar, but that is surely a glaring omission in the CV. :chair:

Yep :-[

 

[duncan]

Thank you Neil, and since you ask...

I thought it was a great route. At the time it seemed the obvious plum, the High Rock direttissima, straight up the most impressive bit of rock* at my local crag.

I got back from an extended trip in August 1984 and couldn't believe it was still waiting to be done so ab’ed it as soon as the winter season opened. It needed minimal clearing, wasn’t practised, and had no fixed gear other than some old aid bolts linking the two cracks. I recruited Paul Smith who was always keen, especially if it meant getting one over on the older Bristol crew (His route Tricky Dicky was named for Dick Broomhead who had also had his eye on it).

We got to work the next day on a typically cold and slightly damp Cheddar in October. I fell off at the bolts on my first try, it all went smoothly on the second go. Paul flashed it on my gear. It was very sustained but this was the end of seven months of near full-time climbing and I’ve never been fitter. It’s well-protected with natural gear other than at the bolts. These must be ancient as it’s not one of the “restored” routes. It would be exciting but not dangerous if they fail, unless my memory is completely rubbish.

Edit: Matt Ward cleaned it last year, he emailed me the following:

"West route is a stunning piece of climbing in an amazing position. I’m also surprised it hasn’t had more interest except for the obvious that cleaning it is an arduous labour of love and the window for climbing it is extremely short. As to the gear, the bolts are pretty dire – we didn’t bother clipping them when trying it so it’s a bit of a hard move above gear and then pumpy to place the next piece. I’d say solid e6 6b (for me very hard for 6a but then I’m about a foot shorter than Martin ). With gear in place – most likely scenario for me, we reckon it’d be 7b+. . "


I was developing a taste for new routing in ‘83/84 but took a 10 year climbing career break, moved to London, and got a proper job. When I got back into things in '94 most the lines I had had in mind had been done and I was, in relative terms, a much weaker climber. I never rekindled the habit. I still have some potential good ones to do in Pembroke and, now I’m less busy, I should pull my finger out.

*along with Sunset Buttress. I still have't finished Paradise Lost...

 

[Steve Crowe]

Karin and I have climbed quite a few insignificant repeats this year, her lead of High Octane at Kilnsey was perhaps the most impressive of our obscure ascents. Dry Rock E1 on Lewis was another, excellent climbing and the central line of the crag but no one had logged it on UKC until we ticked it one showery day in June and yet it is one of the most accessible climbs in the area with a very short walk in and no abseil required.

Our most insignificant though was due to an error in the new North Wales Rockfax. From my log book “We set out to climb Goldcrest and followed the line on the topo in the 2023 Rockfax. It turns out that is Quasimdo. Brilliant climbing but surprisingly vegetated. I made it up the hardest climbing onsight but backed off at a cornice or greenery. We returned the next day and cleaned the finish on abseil, then led it again.”

 

[SA Chris]

There are some massive extremes of numbers of ascents in places like Lewis, with some route having tens of ascents logged, but nearby routes of similar grade and stars getting none. I always wonder if it's due to accessibility, or if it has a decent topo! Must admit when we went we only had the SMC Scottish Rock Climbs Guide, and went for something we recognised from a photo (which is actually labelled incorrectly!)

 

[Steve Crowe]

I agree about Lewis so I added a photo of the route to UKC showing just how close it is to the parking that is near the ariel.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/uig_sea_cliffs_central_-_mhangarstaidh-779/dry_rock-611293#photos

and I also added a photo diagram to the SMC website showing lines of the E1 (and adjacent E3 that we didn’t get on because it started raining again!)

 

[Fultonius]

Karin and I...

Seconded a mate up K&S Special a few years back. Not insignificant! Total Banger! unk:

 

[Will Hunt]

Our most insignificant though was due to an error in the new North Wales Rockfax. From my log book “We set out to climb Goldcrest and followed the line on the topo in the 2023 Rockfax. It turns out that is Quasimdo. Brilliant climbing but surprisingly vegetated. I made it up the hardest climbing onsight but backed off at a cornice or greenery. We returned the next day and cleaned the finish on abseil, then led it again.”

Wait a minute. Are you saying you found a significant mistake in a Rockfax guide?

 

[SA Chris]

I agree about Lewis so I added a photo of the route to UKC showing just how close it is to the parking that is near the ariel.

I did have a look, and it reminded me how much amazing stuff there is there to do. Need to get back, and focus on climbing, not on the amazing surfing this time.

 

[Duncan campbell]

Our most insignificant though was due to an error in the new North Wales Rockfax. From my log book “We set out to climb Goldcrest and followed the line on the topo in the 2023 Rockfax. It turns out that is Quasimdo. Brilliant climbing but surprisingly vegetated. I made it up the hardest climbing onsight but backed off at a cornice or greenery. We returned the next day and cleaned the finish on abseil, then led it again.”

Wait a minute. Are you saying you found a significant mistake in a Rockfax guide?

Lol is there any guidebook in the world with no mistakes!?

 

[Steve Crowe]

“Lol is there any guidebook in the world with no mistakes!?”

It certainly got us to clean up and repeat Quasimodo, a route we probably would never have climbed otherwise.