Until you get closer, go to clip it, realise it's ancient, frayed and faded to white and there is no way of replacing it.
In situ threads
- Thread starter Steve R
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Some interesting responses. I guess it was the fact that the situation with threads didn't seem all that logical or coherent that got me wondering about it in the first place. I've enjoyed seeing how they carry such a positive emotional valence for many of us (apart from the cold hearted Ali and Remus!) and then funny imagining trying to explain to a non-climber why an old bit of cut off rope poked through a hole in the rock can have this positive emotional effect.
El Mocho
Well-Known Member
If this is the thread at the end of the run out but before the final hard move right to the flake, as I suspect it is, then I *believe* it's also in a drilled placement. I'm afraid I have no recollection of how I heard this - it's def not from first hand experience as I've never abbed down the line only climbed past it when I obv didn't stop and have a close look (it *might* have been from chatting to Steve Monks in Nati, very much a *might*)... Like you/ukc though I am more confident that Mike didn't have it when he did the first drilled gear free ascent (and gave it E7). Maybe someone will have a closer look at it some time but I also imagine that 35+ years since Gary placed them it will be hard to tell and prob 30 years with the thread in place (at dif lengths!) I think there is a significant status quo to have it in place.
With all the talk of E5, E6 and E7 for it just imagine getting to the end of the current run out and then, with no thread or extra gear, making the crux moves right to the flake...
ps just to clarify my "believe it's a drilled placement" is possibly total bollocks but hey murky rumors is what the history of climbing is all about.
spidermonkey09
Well-Known Member
I'd love to do Ghost Train. As a result, I want the thread to stay in. Perhaps someone could even hang a knotted rope off it, I'm not sure how brave I am anymore.
"Cold hearted Ali" - I hope that sticks
"Cold hearted Ali" - I hope that sticks
I have heard the same story about the thread on Ghost Train being drilled, quite possibly from the same source.
If I recall correctly, the thread has had at least three versions: short, long for quite a few years, extra long from two or three years ago, then back to short last summer. I think this is from cwaddy, talking about it after he had taken out the XL version and replaced it with an S. (hope he corrects me if I have this wrong). Ghost Train is disappearing into the distance for me now but a thread has been part of the experience for decades so I guess it stays. If a short one is too frightening then pre-place a long quick draw.
In general, I think we should seek to minimise fixed gear of any kind on trad. routes. Threads are the least bad kind of fixed gear in that they take advantage of natural features (mostly...) and decay rather than corrode so are less likely to block potential placements. Of course I've clipped quite a few and sometimes been very happy to do so!
If I recall correctly, the thread has had at least three versions: short, long for quite a few years, extra long from two or three years ago, then back to short last summer. I think this is from cwaddy, talking about it after he had taken out the XL version and replaced it with an S. (hope he corrects me if I have this wrong). Ghost Train is disappearing into the distance for me now but a thread has been part of the experience for decades so I guess it stays. If a short one is too frightening then pre-place a long quick draw.
In general, I think we should seek to minimise fixed gear of any kind on trad. routes. Threads are the least bad kind of fixed gear in that they take advantage of natural features (mostly...) and decay rather than corrode so are less likely to block potential placements. Of course I've clipped quite a few and sometimes been very happy to do so!
In Wendenstöcke, they sometimes drill through runnels for threads. The wind and the sharp limestone on the edges of the holes seem to have effects. Spotted this thread on the ground on the approach.
Of course, that is not the freakiest fixed pro I have spotted on an appoach to a climb
Of course, that is not the freakiest fixed pro I have spotted on an appoach to a climb
The Red Barrack
Well-Known Member
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- Sep 6, 2006
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. There is actually an ok size 2 wire just before the thread. No idea if Mike Owen placed it on his ascent. Extremely impressive either way.
I think there was also originally a peg on the run out section.
FWIW, I've also heard the thread on the run out is drilled. No idea if this is true though. The rock the thread goes through is very thin. So much so, I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't actually break if you were to take a big lob onto it tbh.
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Perhaps a timely thread.
In October I went to Beeston Tor with the aim of doing either Black Grub or Majolica both rely or certainly have had in-situ threads for many year. Both are graded E3 and comments in the UKC logbooks suggest both are soft if the threads are in place and in good condition and they have been this way for a number of years, i don't know if they where forst climbed without them or how they would feel be graded without.
After a complicated approach to Majolica area on the RHS of the crag after we realising the fixed rope system normally used to approach this part of the crag is no-longer functional we approached via the the Thorn to the Pocket Symphony belay and then across a higher ageing fixed line rope. Unfortunately Majolica was covered in ivy for about the first 8-10 meters (probably level with the climber feet in this photo, given the in-situ thread below the climber were coverd under the ivy several meter below it's maximum height. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/beeston_tor-142/majolica-20321#photos&gid=1&pid=1).
This winter I have made 2 visits to remove the ivy (with permission of the National Trust and Natural England thanks to Bonjoy for sorting). I replaced the threads on Majolica and the E1 to the left, Solution Pollution which was also covered in ivy. This looks like a good climb too and also had several in-situ threads. All but one thread on Majolica and one on Solution Pollution looked very difficult/impossible to place on lead (but haven't climbed them so don't know for certain, some other gear looked possible or needed) but given i was replacing the rest like for like and the unusual style of the routes almost entirely being climbed on these threads I replaced these two even though i am against in-situ thread if they are possible to place on lead. I made sure not to make them long and used long lasting and much stronger and cut resistance Aramid cord which is four times the cost so even at trade replacing 10 threads cost around £30 not accounting personal time and petrol with the hope that these will last alot longer.
If there is a considerable opposition I will remove these but would ask that I am given the chance to climb these routes that were not possible until recently because of the ivy growth which took considerable effort to remove first in the style that most people would have enjoyed them until the ivy took hold.
I was planning on returning to assess and replace the threads on Black Grub too.
In October I went to Beeston Tor with the aim of doing either Black Grub or Majolica both rely or certainly have had in-situ threads for many year. Both are graded E3 and comments in the UKC logbooks suggest both are soft if the threads are in place and in good condition and they have been this way for a number of years, i don't know if they where forst climbed without them or how they would feel be graded without.
After a complicated approach to Majolica area on the RHS of the crag after we realising the fixed rope system normally used to approach this part of the crag is no-longer functional we approached via the the Thorn to the Pocket Symphony belay and then across a higher ageing fixed line rope. Unfortunately Majolica was covered in ivy for about the first 8-10 meters (probably level with the climber feet in this photo, given the in-situ thread below the climber were coverd under the ivy several meter below it's maximum height. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/beeston_tor-142/majolica-20321#photos&gid=1&pid=1).
This winter I have made 2 visits to remove the ivy (with permission of the National Trust and Natural England thanks to Bonjoy for sorting). I replaced the threads on Majolica and the E1 to the left, Solution Pollution which was also covered in ivy. This looks like a good climb too and also had several in-situ threads. All but one thread on Majolica and one on Solution Pollution looked very difficult/impossible to place on lead (but haven't climbed them so don't know for certain, some other gear looked possible or needed) but given i was replacing the rest like for like and the unusual style of the routes almost entirely being climbed on these threads I replaced these two even though i am against in-situ thread if they are possible to place on lead. I made sure not to make them long and used long lasting and much stronger and cut resistance Aramid cord which is four times the cost so even at trade replacing 10 threads cost around £30 not accounting personal time and petrol with the hope that these will last alot longer.
If there is a considerable opposition I will remove these but would ask that I am given the chance to climb these routes that were not possible until recently because of the ivy growth which took considerable effort to remove first in the style that most people would have enjoyed them until the ivy took hold.
I was planning on returning to assess and replace the threads on Black Grub too.
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Johnny Brown
Well-Known Member
For me it depends on how many there are. I don’t mind two or three being left in. But I did Black Grub once and it was a clip up, you didn’t need to place anything yourself and frankly the experience was ruined - it became a forgettable 6a.
Through discussion on UKC I think it turned out to have been Gary - like you he’d mostly done a great job cleaning the place but his more-the-merrier approach had meant he’d got carried away with the threads. IIRC he saw to took the trad view on board and removed a lot of them himself.
Of course that leaves the question of which are the crucial ones…
Through discussion on UKC I think it turned out to have been Gary - like you he’d mostly done a great job cleaning the place but his more-the-merrier approach had meant he’d got carried away with the threads. IIRC he saw to took the trad view on board and removed a lot of them himself.
Of course that leaves the question of which are the crucial ones…
spidermonkey09
Well-Known Member
Beeston is an odd case. I've never been, but its always been on the 'I really should go there' list. For me, the curio status of the plentiful threads and the fact that the routes are kind of hybrid trad/sport routes is part of the attraction of going. Would the routes get done less (even less than they already do, by the sounds of the encroaching ivy) if the threads were removed? I'd leave them in, and well done Hacker for sorting.
I remember reading, I think in the 'On Peak Rock' guide, that people climb(ed) with a 'Beeston Broddler' (coat hanger or something?) to get the threads in there. Not too sure if the idea was that you managed to do this on lead or just on ab? I remember the routes being really good, especially black grub - which I assume I enjoyed as a clip up!
More general point -I think you have to be careful applying the 'how much routes get done' metric as a justification for certain actions/approaches. It's a variable worthy of consideration but quality of experience can soon outstrip quantity of experience imo.
More general point -I think you have to be careful applying the 'how much routes get done' metric as a justification for certain actions/approaches. It's a variable worthy of consideration but quality of experience can soon outstrip quantity of experience imo.
Johnny Brown
Well-Known Member
It's a hybrid crag I suppose, but I wouldn't describe the routes as hybrid. There are some short sport routes on the steepest bits, but mostly trad routes, some with a scattering of threads. Done all the classics several times and only once was one route a clip up.
