First E7 onsight

[remus]

I can't remember if we're talking UK only, but Peter Croft made a first try first ascent of the crux pitch of The Shadow in Squamish in 1988. That weighs in at 12d or ~7c on trad gear which is in the right ball park.

The usual vagaries apply about whether it was a 'proper' onsight.

 

[tc]

Rubble, Leigh McGinley & Paul Pritchard,1991.
Must be a contender?

 

[jwi]

I can't remember if we're talking UK only, but Peter Croft made a first try first ascent of the crux pitch of The Shadow in Squamish in 1988. That weighs in at 12d or ~7c on trad gear which is in the right ball park.

The usual vagaries apply about whether it was a 'proper' onsight.

Jerry Moffat onsighted Super Crack 7c in Shawagunks in 1982.

 

[Simon Lee]

Phil Davison RIP is said to have onsighted Deathwish at Blue Scar in 1982 (pre peg on Stairway to Heaven)

 

[remus]

Phil Davison RIP is said to have onsighted Deathwish at Blue Scar in 1982 (pre peg on Stairway to Heaven)

I've swapped some emails with Elaine Owen (Mike Owen's partner) and she confirmed this ascent and gave the exact date as 19th september 1982.

https://climbing-history.org/climb/866/death-wish

 

[Fiend]

Rubble, Leigh McGinley & Paul Pritchard,1991.
Must be a contender?

I'm guessing that's not one of the "7c on trad gear" ones ;D :unsure:

 

[T_B]

Interesting that Death Wish has held its grade. Personally I don’t think it’s E7. Fair enough I did it with the peg but reckoned F7a climbing at the time. Compare that to Woodward’s Ninth Life of the same era which is F7b, pumpier and more dangerous. Or Beau Geste, also from ‘82, in a completely different league of technical difficulty (F7c+ or Font 7b). But I guess if you name your route ‘Death Wish’ the grade is more likely to stick?!

 

[Stu Littlefair]

I'm not sure 9th life is more dangerous if you don't clip the peg on Death Wish, but is it quite artificial not to? I agree it's probably not E7....

 

[Duncan campbell]

Blue Scar - now there is a crag I would love to visit and yet never manage it!! :chair: Some years I get permission and it doesn't dry, other years I don't get round to getting permission.

What are the routes to do there?

Central Wall and The Shootist are the two that I thought looked good.

Priaprism? What are the E6s like there? Looks like a mega crag.

Maybe 2022 will be the year...?

 

[tc]

Chris Gore, Zero, 1983

 

[T_B]

I'm not sure 9th life is more dangerous if you don't clip the peg on Death Wish, but is it quite artificial not to? I agree it's probably not E7....

Just comparing the comfort afforded by a small wire and a fixed hex whilst stood in balance to blu tacking skyhooks in place hanging off your arms.

 

[Stu Littlefair]

Yeah, you might be right - it’s been a while!

 

[andy popp]

When did the Zero upgrade happen? And is it now solidly consensus? Not disputing it, as I've never been on it, but I've only just become aware of it. Would this not make one of the first, if not the first, E7s in the country?

 

[petejh]

CC guide has the story. E6 originally, straightened out (accidentally) at E7 by Andy Pollitt.

 

[grimer]

History, like this, is such a hard-to-define thing. This thread is looking back through today's eyes (via grades ascribed in 2021) to the achievements of the past. I keep thinking that things didn't work the way we see them today.

Cave Arete Direct on Laddow from like 1920 gets 'The First E1', but it's short and above heather and I wouldn't be surprised if there were harder leads about at the time.

The Rasp, today, gets E2. Goliath, E4/5. Steve Bancroft once told me that, in his day, Goliath was just the nest thing you did after The Rasp. So in the 1970s they were much the same. Grades put Goliath close to White Wand, but they were decades apart, and rightly so.

Surely the important thing is what were the big leaps in the era in question. And I guess for that you have to ask Ando Popp and his contemporaries, people climbing around when the first E7 onsights / flashes or whatever were happening. What felt like the new thing?

Patch on Raped; Bransby on Impact Day; Leo on Masters; Steve Mac on Nightmayer; James on everything?

What are today's breakthroughs?

 

[Simon Lee]

Good insight but also the significance of some things weren’t truly appreciated at the time they were done

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Interesting that Death Wish has held its grade. Personally I don’t think it’s E7. Fair enough I did it with the peg but reckoned F7a climbing at the time. Compare that to Woodward’s Ninth Life of the same era which is F7b, pumpier and more dangerous. Or Beau Geste, also from ‘82, in a completely different league of technical difficulty (F7c+ or Font 7b). But I guess if you name your route ‘Death Wish’ the grade is more likely to stick?!

JD and Leechy climbed Beau Geste "onsight" in ~86. Forgot that ; was belaying. Considered E6 at the time. Of course, beta re gear (the wire), and it still had the pebble.

I think this is an interesting concept, in that E7 is more than just the number on a scale.

The significance is the breakthrough at a particular juncture; next level.

That's the way that new grades are formed, and it's not a fixed or linear/straight line scale. The next level grows from what was before. When the next grade is added - say E8 - the grade before loses it's breakthrough heftiness, and then gets shuffled down to account for - in this case - the harder "E6"s.

So there's a valid question re whether what "counts" (ridiculous to put it that way of course) is the ascent of what would now be given E7, vs what would have been given E7 in it's historical context.

i.e. when was the first ground breaking ascent at the grade, made?

 

[remus]

History, like this, is such a hard-to-define thing. This thread is looking back through today's eyes (via grades ascribed in 2021) to the achievements of the past. I keep thinking that things didn't work the way we see them today.

Cave Arete Direct on Laddow from like 1920 gets 'The First E1', but it's short and above heather and I wouldn't be surprised if there were harder leads about at the time.

The Rasp, today, gets E2. Goliath, E4/5. Steve Bancroft once told me that, in his day, Goliath was just the nest thing you did after The Rasp. So in the 1970s they were much the same. Grades put Goliath close to White Wand, but they were decades apart, and rightly so.

Surely the important thing is what were the big leaps in the era in question. And I guess for that you have to ask Ando Popp and his contemporaries, people climbing around when the first E7 onsights / flashes or whatever were happening. What felt like the new thing?

Patch on Raped; Bransby on Impact Day; Leo on Masters; Steve Mac on Nightmayer; James on everything?

What are today's breakthroughs?

I think this is an excellent point. I've had a few goes at putting together 'first of the grade' lists on climbing-history.org but it always seems to work out strangely: if you just go by the numbers you end up with things that have recently been upgraded going in, whereas at the time they were clearly not such a big thing.

All complicated by changes in technology and style too. I can imagine The Rasp and Goliath feel fairly similar if you've not got a phat rack of cams dangling off your harness and some sport fitness from your recent kalymnos trip. I bet they weren't milking the kneebars on the rasp back in the day!

The 'first 9a+' is a good example of this, with the answer spanning 4 routes and 5 years depending on who you ask and which routes you retrospectively upgrade.

 

[webbo]

History, like this, is such a hard-to-define thing. This thread is looking back through today's eyes (via grades ascribed in 2021) to the achievements of the past. I keep thinking that things didn't work the way we see them today.

Cave Arete Direct on Laddow from like 1920 gets 'The First E1', but it's short and above heather and I wouldn't be surprised if there were harder leads about at the time.

The Rasp, today, gets E2. Goliath, E4/5. Steve Bancroft once told me that, in his day, Goliath was just the nest thing you did after The Rasp. So in the 1970s they were much the same. Grades put Goliath close to White Wand, but they were decades apart, and rightly so.

Also in the early to mid 70’s people were still using a resting point on the thread on the Rasp.

 

[SamT]

. I bet they weren't milking the kneebars on the rasp back in the day!

:-\ - I'll bet the mortgage that Don didn't layback the whole thing on the FA.

I suspect he was somewhat milking the kneebar as he threaded the chockstone.