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Johnny Brown said:
We've now closed for the foreseeable. First hospital to have arrivals exceed capacity in London yesterday. I think we're less than a week away from full lockdown now.

Sorry you’ve had to close JB. We (like many others) have been deep into contingency planning all week. 100 employees. Working out plans and scenarios. It’s serious.
 
petejh said:
Ha, yeah I'm typing without too much thought for exact wording but yeah 'requisition' and 'volunteer' are at odds. Hopefully you get the picture of what might be possible given a government-funded workforce of millions organised into their company groups and set to work doing useful tasks.

Why not in 'peacetime'? Well I suppose we already do to some degree but on more a charitable footing than government-funded. I don't have an ideological view on it. Just pointing out that this moment is an obvious opportunity to do something pragmatic.

Yes I got the picture! Forgot the winky thing :)

I agree with the concept of your idea. I think the general point for discussion I wanted to make (which I kept in my head!) was; why is it we need such a huge crisis to raise ideas like this up the flagpole for consideration? For e.g. unemployment benefits are next to nothing. and those on them often scapegoated as scoungers. Why not have the government keep the current benefits for actual scroungers, but then on top also guarantee work to anyone who wants it at national living wage doing whatever needs doing? They could even allow people to leave with no notice if they had another job offer so that it "didn't interfere with the free market". It would increase productivity, give people a chance to work if they wish, and actually help them back into the private sector a lot more effectively than signing in once a week (evidence of work ethic, references etc.). It would also naturally enforce the national living wage nationwide without having to legislate for it via "market forces". I know you have no ideological position, but those in power do (I include the right wing press as a large part of this), hence why these pragmatic *at any time* ideas don't get an airing....
 
Falling Down said:
I can’t imagine the mental backflips that Sunak, a lifelong free market neoliberal (ex-Goldman’s and hedge fund manager) has gone through in the last 72 hours. There’ll be more coming I’m sure.

Maybe...For those who are self-employed (I am) the only option as I see it is Universal Credit to a value equivalent to Statuatory Sick Pay = £94 / week (£407/month). Compare to employed people getting subbed up to £2500/month max? Also seems to be an issue of eligibility - UC not currently allowed for those with over £16K in savings (not me btw!). Seems to be a situation whereby your average self employed rope access tech whose fairly decent monthly wage is now replaced by £407/month max or £0 if they have put a good amount of money aside for whatever reason. Whereas if you're employed on £80K a year with a million in the bank you can get £2500/month. Does seem a strange situation? I can sort of half see some logic if I squint - the self employed are meant to be making a life choice to look after themselves so are left to the wolves. But on the other side everyone else now has less money to spend, social distancing makes some discretionary work impractical (plumber doing domestic bathrooms?), businesses postponing investment worrying about the future. Any thoughts? Not decided myself but then I do have some savings and no dependents. Suspect if I was looking after a young family I might feel differently...
 
I guess the subbing of employees allows businesses to reduce their overheads to a point whereby the business is as dormant as it possibly can be, with the aim of hopefully avoiding the entire retail, leisure and hospitality sectors going to the wall within the next few months.
 
@nigel lots of chat about this on the radio this morning. 5 million self employed affected. Suspect he’ll have to sort this out soon.

The easiest way would have been 2 weeks ago to say some sort of universal payment to everyone would happen. Instead we’ve had this tiered approach.
 
tomtom said:
@nigel lots of chat about this on the radio this morning. 5 million self employed affected. Suspect he’ll have to sort this out soon.

The easiest way would have been 2 weeks ago to say some sort of universal payment to everyone would happen. Instead we’ve had this tiered approach.

Haven't heard / read the news yet but its no surprise there's chat, its a lot of people affected. They do seem to be edging towards some sort of Universal Basic Income, hopefully we'll get there for everyone's sake. Like Falling Down said, its no surprise its taking a Tory government a bit of time to complete the necessary mental backflips. Even Trump is talking in these terms now though...
 
Habrich - Andy's wife is seriously ill in hospital. It might just be me being overly sensitive but every time he posts something remotely political or economically related you almost always respond with a pointed remark or dig. He just shared a podcast link that's all. I would have thought that we might try and be a bit more civil to one another during these times.
 
Probably a bit basic for some of you but interesting in light of some this discussion:

Sunak, like chancellor Alistair Darling in 2008, keeps saying “the economy will bounce back” because it’s fundamentally sound. And that’s how most people think of the shocks we’ve experienced in our lifetime. To the ordinary person it appears as if there is a “real economy” of supermarkets, coffee bars, hospitals and universities – and above that a barely tangible financial economy dedicated to handling risks and generating large rewards for the rich, which occasionally goes wrong.

During the 2008 crisis it appeared as if this financial “roof” collapsed onto the building that was supporting it, but the building – though it suffered damage – remained stable and the roof was rebuilt. The problem is, by the same analogy, this time it’s not the roof collapsing, it’s the foundations.

Capitalism, like all previous economic systems, is built on people’s work. We are compelled to get out of bed, cram ourselves into public transport, obey the instructions of managers and the discipline of the clock. And when it’s over, even as we huddle together in the pub, or play five-a-side or go out to dinner, we’re still generating returns to capital invested by someone else.

And though the epidemic will be temporary, the resulting disruptions will not. Because the finance system is not actually a “roof”: it has, in the space of 40 years, become the supporting structure of capitalism itself.

Every aspect of human life, in a developed society like our, is “securitised”. That is: my gym membership fees, the takings at my local pub, the profits of Starbucks, the bus and tube fares I pay – all are wrapped up into financial instruments into which a complex network of banks, hedge funds, insurance firms and pension funds invest in order to generate profits.

If the gym membership is cancelled, if Starbucks makes a loss, if the pub closes and, above all, if the worker does not go to work, the entire financial system will come under strain – and in ways we cannot predict because more than half of it exists in the so-called “shadow banking system”, a barely regulated and opaque network that has amassed $52trn in assets since the 2008 crisis. These “assets” are in fact just the expected profits made by all the restaurant chains, insurance companies, airlines etc – which are about to go bust.

Paul Mason in The New Statesman.
 
Well it would appear I timed the world's worst job change. Got offered a new (much better) job about 3 weeks ago, and finished up at my old place on 13th March (date of Boris' "we need to level with the public" speech).

I wasn't due to start new job till 6th April (their next available "bootcamp" for new starters). So, happy days I thought - a few weeks off, get stuff done on the house snagging list, climb myself back to fitness etc, generally de-stress.

How wrong I was. I managed all of a day of freedom, then my son had a slight (but over the limit) fever at nursery, triggering 14 days of self isolation for the whole family. Then, my new employer called to say that while they definitely still want me, given circumstances they can't commit to me starting until mid-July, and even that is a "wait and see".

Only positive is that with schools now closed, and a teacher as a partner I can at least be here to sort the kids without having to juggle working from home in a brand new job at same time.

Fortunately we have always been pretty prudent financially, so thankfully we have a decent contingency fund to draw off.

No idea what to do in meantime though. Just take the time, "enjoy" more time en famille, or maybe go help out at Tesco stacking shelves or on till. It won't pay big money but it'd keep us topped up.
 
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b
 
tommytwotone said:
Well it would appear I timed the world's worst job change. Got offered a new (much better) job about 3 weeks ago, and finished up at my old place on 13th March (date of Boris' "we need to level with the public" speech).

I wasn't due to start new job till 6th April (their next available "bootcamp" for new starters). So, happy days I thought - a few weeks off, get stuff done on the house snagging list, climb myself back to fitness etc, generally de-stress.

How wrong I was. I managed all of a day of freedom, then my son had a slight (but over the limit) fever at nursery, triggering 14 days of self isolation for the whole family. Then, my new employer called to say that while they definitely still want me, given circumstances they can't commit to me starting until mid-July, and even that is a "wait and see".

Only positive is that with schools now closed, and a teacher as a partner I can at least be here to sort the kids without having to juggle working from home in a brand new job at same time.

Fortunately we have always been pretty prudent financially, so thankfully we have a decent contingency fund to draw off.

No idea what to do in meantime though. Just take the time, "enjoy" more time en famille, or maybe go help out at Tesco stacking shelves or on till. It won't pay big money but it'd keep us topped up.

That's shit timing. Maybe try to work at a local veg box supplier or something?
 
gme said:
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b

We already applied, this morning. Took about five minutes through the Torbay Council site.
 
Oldmanmatt said:
gme said:
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b

We already applied, this morning. Took about five minutes through the Torbay Council site.
Just need to actually be told to stop work rather than vague statements and we will be in it.
If not I am going to have to start payoffs which I really don’t want to do.
 
Bad Luck TTT. One of my ex colleagues is in the same boat, except he hasn't got a "definitely still want me".
 
gme said:
Oldmanmatt said:
gme said:
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b

We already applied, this morning. Took about five minutes through the Torbay Council site.
Just need to actually be told to stop work rather than vague statements and we will be in it.
If not I am going to have to start payoffs which I really don’t want to do.

Aren't you the business owner? If so why do you need someone to tell you to stop?
 
petejh said:
gme said:
Oldmanmatt said:
gme said:
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b

We already applied, this morning. Took about five minutes through the Torbay Council site.
Just need to actually be told to stop work rather than vague statements and we will be in it.
If not I am going to have to start payoffs which I really don’t want to do.

Aren't you the business owner? If so why do you need someone to tell you to stop?

I understand your reluctance GME.
We went before we were pushed, but that’s because we were an obvious risk and the staff were on board and even grateful (one of our lads has a girlfriend with a serious autoimmune condition).

It was bloody hard and we lost a lot of sleep because of it. We actually, mainly, live on Polly’s part time salary (estate/lettings agent) and the rent from another house. I had already withdrawn from the business, intending to go back to the Royal Navy for a while.

My job start date is on hold, until further decisions are made, our tenant has chronic COPD and the agents shut down yesterday; so we very much dependent on the government making good on their promises.

So, yes, these are tough choices and not to be made under peer pressure alone. Follow the guidance, as best as you can interpret it and you are beyond blame.
If you have real, nagging, doubts about your choice, youmade the wrong choice. Change it.

That is all that can be expected, by anyone.

There will be vigilantes and hindsight “experts”.

They can go swivel.
 
Oh yeah.

Screwfix and Toolstation are both shut down today, on line and physically.

Screwfix looks temporary, but the Toolstation wording looks more permanent.
 
petejh said:
gme said:
Oldmanmatt said:
gme said:
New site re the support offered to companies.
https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/coronavirus-business-support/

Looks pretty straight forward at minute in relation to the job retention scheme that is most pertinent to me, and probably other employers too.
Thought it might have been a slow complex thing to sort as with most gov stuff but guess not b

We already applied, this morning. Took about five minutes through the Torbay Council site.
Just need to actually be told to stop work rather than vague statements and we will be in it.
If not I am going to have to start payoffs which I really don’t want to do.

Aren't you the business owner? If so why do you need someone to tell you to stop?

If i stop on my own accord but sites continue i am in breach of contract.
If i shut shop i will have to pay people off, site lads, unless i can take up the governments offer to pay 80% of there salaries but to do so i think we will have to show i had legit reason to get rid of them, if i can still work why do i need to pay them off.

Our legal advice is we need to work until we have been stopped.
 

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