Elbow (golfers?) injury recovery advice please.
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Fiend
Whut
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Back once again with the renegade elbow.
Been doing the usual theraputic bollox ofc.
Also I've tried eccentric lat pulldowns using one of those double rung type things as a theraputic exercise. Pull it down with both arms, favouring the uninjured left, let it go slowly back up using the injured right. Quite sore for the first half of the movement, eases right off towards full extension. I can see my forearm muscle visibly stretching out a lot which makes me think it might do the recommended "load the tendon under extension" shizzle.
Thoughts??
Edited for clarity - I'm wondering about the eccentric pulldowns as rehab.
Been doing the usual theraputic bollox ofc.
Also I've tried eccentric lat pulldowns using one of those double rung type things as a theraputic exercise. Pull it down with both arms, favouring the uninjured left, let it go slowly back up using the injured right. Quite sore for the first half of the movement, eases right off towards full extension. I can see my forearm muscle visibly stretching out a lot which makes me think it might do the recommended "load the tendon under extension" shizzle.
Thoughts??
Edited for clarity - I'm wondering about the eccentric pulldowns as rehab.
I assume golfers. I was plagued for years and that sounds like just the sort of thing that agrivated it! Been pain free for a few years now and key was buying some cheap paralettes and doing various things with those. I suspect I had weak wrists and shoulder girdle and static holds helped with that. I found anything that aggrivated it a bad idea although worst thing was doing nothing so keep trying different things and good luck!
Jonathan Platt
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I used to get loads of bother with this in the early 2000s as well but been ok for years. Occasionally get slight niggle coming back but I find the usual stuff seems to sort it in a week or so. Realise this isnt that helpful as you have already done this. Have you made sure you get the level of "aggravation" right when doing the standard eccentrics - think it is in Macleods book and some tendinopathy discussion he linked a few years ago.
mrjonathanr
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Fiend said:
If you are really bothered about fixing this, you’ll go to see a good physio. Someone who will diagnose your injury, rather than tell you what helps theirs.
Fiend
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Okay, I guess my recent post was a bit casual and not well written to ask the question I have.
I have a golfer's elbow flare up in my right arm. From having chronic golfer's elbow in my left arm for several years, I know what it is. From having managed, alleviated and reduced that left arm golfer's elbow to an uninhibitive state (it's actual complete disappearance coincided with a couple of reflexology sessions which is quite possibly an entirely different discussion), I know what usual protocols (warming up well, taping during climbing, press-ups after climbing, regular eccentric wrist curls and rotations, ice if needed, massaging the tendon-muscle join and lower muscle belly, stretching) work for me.
The question is: would the exercise I described (eccentric pull-downs) work as a rehab exercise along the same principles as eccentric wrist curls etc (loading the tendon as it's extending)?? The discomfort and clear extension indicate so, but if anyone is aware of either any dangers (other than the obvious "don't overdue it") or counter-arguments ("this won't work compared to eccentric wrist curls because of xyx") then I'd appreciate them.
I have a golfer's elbow flare up in my right arm. From having chronic golfer's elbow in my left arm for several years, I know what it is. From having managed, alleviated and reduced that left arm golfer's elbow to an uninhibitive state (it's actual complete disappearance coincided with a couple of reflexology sessions which is quite possibly an entirely different discussion), I know what usual protocols (warming up well, taping during climbing, press-ups after climbing, regular eccentric wrist curls and rotations, ice if needed, massaging the tendon-muscle join and lower muscle belly, stretching) work for me.
The question is: would the exercise I described (eccentric pull-downs) work as a rehab exercise along the same principles as eccentric wrist curls etc (loading the tendon as it's extending)?? The discomfort and clear extension indicate so, but if anyone is aware of either any dangers (other than the obvious "don't overdue it") or counter-arguments ("this won't work compared to eccentric wrist curls because of xyx") then I'd appreciate them.
Fultonius
Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
I'm trying to picture the eccentric pull downs, but it sounds like it wouldn't quite hit the right muscles, but if you're getting the "familiar pain, easing with reps" then it might be doing the trick?
Would seem like it would not be doing the right thing as there's very little wrist flexion (so it's almost an isometric exercise). that said....isometric & high loading = good tendon loading and minimal "aggravation", so you might be on to something.
How recently did you get the onset of issues?
When I got tennis elbow in my right arm, it took moths, but when I figured out what worked for me I was good in 2-3 weeks. I then got it in my left and thought "great, I know exactly what to do", but that was a fresh inury, and the high intensity/low reps routine made it worse, but light weights and more reps seemed to help (tendinosis/tendinitis innit),
Would seem like it would not be doing the right thing as there's very little wrist flexion (so it's almost an isometric exercise). that said....isometric & high loading = good tendon loading and minimal "aggravation", so you might be on to something.
How recently did you get the onset of issues?
When I got tennis elbow in my right arm, it took moths, but when I figured out what worked for me I was good in 2-3 weeks. I then got it in my left and thought "great, I know exactly what to do", but that was a fresh inury, and the high intensity/low reps routine made it worse, but light weights and more reps seemed to help (tendinosis/tendinitis innit),
mrjonathanr
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Fiend said:
Sorry if my response seemed abrupt, but as someone who is frequently injured, I am quite averse to wasting any further time barking up the wrong tree or persisting with ineffective solutions. I’d rather be climbing.
Is it FCU or pronator teres which is giving you grief?
Fiend
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@Fultonius - I see what you mean about the lack of wrist flexion. I'm 3 weeks into it. Have been doing eccentrics for the last 2 weeks, although I'm struggling to get enough loading to provoke discomfort in the tendon area.
@MRJR - a bit of both I think. Feels more like PT in the tests but more like FCU in general usage and level of aggravation with non-wrist-rotating movements.
@MRJR - a bit of both I think. Feels more like PT in the tests but more like FCU in general usage and level of aggravation with non-wrist-rotating movements.
mrjonathanr
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You need to find out what to target because those injuries demand different protocols. I appreciate physio fees hit the budget pretty hard but my logic is they save a lot of time by speeding recovery. Money :devangel: time.
Good luck with it whatever you decide.
Good luck with it whatever you decide.
mrjonathanr
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Well I usually schlep across to Sheffield to see Jon Ostrovskis. He’s great, sees a lot of climbers. He does Zoom consults too https://www.919clinic.co.uk/
I know some of our Olympic team come over from Sheffield to see Jeff Ross at Wilmslow Total Fitness down the A34. Jeff is excellent- all his physios are, esp Steve Renshaw (previously at LFC under Klopp). Have seen both but prices are... not trivial.
https://www.harrisandross.co.uk/our-clinics/wilmslow-physiotherapy/
Jon O is good.
I know some of our Olympic team come over from Sheffield to see Jeff Ross at Wilmslow Total Fitness down the A34. Jeff is excellent- all his physios are, esp Steve Renshaw (previously at LFC under Klopp). Have seen both but prices are... not trivial.
https://www.harrisandross.co.uk/our-clinics/wilmslow-physiotherapy/
Jon O is good.
mrjonathanr
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I think for joints like shoulders Jeff and co are great. My philosophy was always pay a fortune for top notch advice once. Loads cheaper than multiple cheaper visits to physios who can’t fix you.
Pretty sold on the ‘potter at Burbage + Jon O’ combo, fixed my elbow (not golfers) this summer.
Ironically I can walk to Total Fitness.
Pretty sold on the ‘potter at Burbage + Jon O’ combo, fixed my elbow (not golfers) this summer.
Ironically I can walk to Total Fitness.
Bump - maybe its a co-incidence, but since doing some TRX stuff (light/gentle) 2-4 times a week my Golfers is much improved.... It was a teeny bit 'feely' last night after doing some one arm PU training (a usual trigger) and I did some prone IYT's and it felt better after - and fine in the morning (Prone T's especially seemed to help).
N=1, who knows etc... but thought I'd post it up.
N=1, who knows etc... but thought I'd post it up.
monkoffunk
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Does anyone have experience with returning to training after rehabbing golfers elbow and finding yourself pain free (but probably injury prone)?
Last year I ended up in same boat as many of the people in this thread. January I was getting back into training after a layoff and went a bit too hard too fast probably because it was easy to re-gain some strength but without conditioned tendons. Did a ton of crimp pull ups and ended up with a very irritating right elbow injury.
I’ve done all the things I should have done (mostly) including seeing Huffy who worked out I had some strength imbalances, much weaker on the right hand side. So I focused on correcting those imbalances primary rather then targeting the tendon.
With some time and physio things are a lot better. This month I’ve been doing more climbing and more strength stuff, but I haven’t done a single pull up.
I’m pretty keen to work some weighted pull ups back in (I can’t just go and climb all the time, with work and kids). When I was climbing my best and at my strongest I found them a really helpful part of my routine.
My first thoughts are:
1. Always warm up fully
2. Do pull-ups on a bar with weight for strength. Slowly build up.
3. Do hangs on a crimp for fingers but don’t do any crimp pull ups at all.
Does this seem reasonable? Has anyone been here and been able to return to pull ups without re-aggravating the injury? How slow did you go and was there anything you avoided? Does it seem sensible to can the crimp pull ups?
Thanks!
Last year I ended up in same boat as many of the people in this thread. January I was getting back into training after a layoff and went a bit too hard too fast probably because it was easy to re-gain some strength but without conditioned tendons. Did a ton of crimp pull ups and ended up with a very irritating right elbow injury.
I’ve done all the things I should have done (mostly) including seeing Huffy who worked out I had some strength imbalances, much weaker on the right hand side. So I focused on correcting those imbalances primary rather then targeting the tendon.
With some time and physio things are a lot better. This month I’ve been doing more climbing and more strength stuff, but I haven’t done a single pull up.
I’m pretty keen to work some weighted pull ups back in (I can’t just go and climb all the time, with work and kids). When I was climbing my best and at my strongest I found them a really helpful part of my routine.
My first thoughts are:
1. Always warm up fully
2. Do pull-ups on a bar with weight for strength. Slowly build up.
3. Do hangs on a crimp for fingers but don’t do any crimp pull ups at all.
Does this seem reasonable? Has anyone been here and been able to return to pull ups without re-aggravating the injury? How slow did you go and was there anything you avoided? Does it seem sensible to can the crimp pull ups?
Thanks!
Fultonius
Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
I would say get the problem tissues as strong as you can before starting to do too much climbing style loading.
So for golfers, I guess whatever the physio gave you - do it with much bigger weights, low reps and plenty of rest. Also, avoid volume at all costs in climbing and climbing training. Stop training when you have a bit of power loss.
Happy for other to agree/disagree, add, amend this thought.
I did this for my TE and it's never come back.
So for golfers, I guess whatever the physio gave you - do it with much bigger weights, low reps and plenty of rest. Also, avoid volume at all costs in climbing and climbing training. Stop training when you have a bit of power loss.
Happy for other to agree/disagree, add, amend this thought.
I did this for my TE and it's never come back.
monkoffunk
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Fultonius said:
That sounds very sensible. I’ll work on progressing up the weight from here. Actually not quite at the fully prescribed routine yet because it turned out it was harder than I can do!
I’m quite fortunate I’m basically forced in to short and often sessions right now. I’m either in the gym which opens an hour before work, or the climbing wall that closes a couple of hours after, so some automatic limitation.
Climbing itself has never seemed to be intense enough to cause a problem, was just the crimp pull ups but I think I’ll be pretty mindful of volume with both climbing and the training for a while.
Thanks a lot, that’s helpful advice!
