Elbow (golfers?) injury recovery advice please.

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Just saw this thread and thought I'd add my anecdote. I had golfers and tennis elbow from training with kettlebells, before training systematically for climbing (and luckily for me climbing training has never aggravated it). It went on for about a year, and like everyone else, I tried all sorts to help it, but nothing made it go away and pausing training only seemed to temporarily appease the beast. In the end what gave me instant AND lasting relief was using a rice bucket to work out my grip/wrists/forearms.

I am absolutely convinced that the insane full-forearm/wrist/hand pump that you can get from rice bucket workouts promoted blood flow to the damaged tendons/tissues and significantly sped up recovery (alongside giving instant pain relief). I still do rice bucket workouts regularly and the elbow problems have never returned. My forearms have grown. My hands have grown. My wrists have grown. What's not to like?
This is interesting. I'm always willing to try some zany stuff. Got a link to the kind of bucket based exercises you were doing?
 
NNFN. Hopefully just a flare up which will settle down in couple of weeks. I can’t really add much other than suggesting cautious and very progressive heavy loading, eventually working from a bar to a fingerboard and finally to some deep locks. That’s pretty much what I’ve done since writing the stuff about 120 degree locks in the other thread. Once I was confident with +20pct bw, started working slightly deeper lock angles then deep full locks, then reintroduced pull ups on a bar and very cautiously a finger board and even campus board – but focusing on therapy not performance. Any flare ups along the way, then dialled it all back. All very slow going, empires rose and fell, ice caps melted, etc.
Thanks, doesn't feel *too * bad currently in that I can still climb and train a bit, but it's vexing because id almost forgotten that I needed to be a bit careful...which is exactly when you need to be most careful!

Are you climbing/training alongside doing this rehab or knocking all that on the head and just the rehab?
 
As I’ve never heard of rice bucket therapy. I googled it and there’s a web page called Hoopers beta where he looks in to the evidence behind it. It’s worth a read.
 
Thanks, doesn't feel *too * bad currently in that I can still climb and train a bit, but it's vexing because id almost forgotten that I needed to be a bit careful...which is exactly when you need to be most careful!

Are you climbing/training alongside doing this rehab or knocking all that on the head and just the rehab?
Yes still climbed whilst doing the rehab. Typically indoor bouldering one or two times a week, each session preceded by a mini rehab session where the reps are reduced 50pct and not adding additional weight. Initially cautious with bouldering and avoided tweaky stuff until I was sure I was up to it. Also did two or three rehab sessions a week. Hard to get the dose right: at the start I was doing too many sessions and making things worse, then at the end too little and not progressing.

Also did some moderate fingerboarding to maintain conditioning, but learnt the hard way that pushing it to max hangs too soon was a good way to delay elbow recovery.

Have been doing a lot of 30s finger lifts at the moment to rehab an A2: might prefer this to max hangs for general finger strength anyway as it requires less recovery time, so you can do more of it, and is less likely to aggravate the ageing body.
 
This is interesting. I'm always willing to try some zany stuff. Got a link to the kind of bucket based exercises you were doing?

This video pretty much covers all the exercises and can be used as a follow-along (although I don't do so many exercises, but good to try them to see what feels good):



I try to make sure I am going for a good intensity, I will often break out in a sweat and even maybe a little endurance grunt as I get pumped and push on, especially in the last exercise. At the moment I will typically do the following:

1. closed fist rotations (called wax off in this video)... 25ish reps
2. closed fist rotations the other way (wax on... if you please)... 25ish
3. closed fist flappy things (called paint the fence in this video)... 25ish
4. closed fist flapyy things (potato masher in the vid... but I turn my fists so my knuckles are facing towards each other then flap kinda up and down/forwards and backwards)... 25
5. Finally this full hand grip and open movement, just think about spreading your fingers/hand as wide open as possible inside the rice and then gripping into a fist then boshing back open to fully extended aggressively... you can get a good rhythm with this one... 50 reps

That's usually it. Brush the rice off, walk around, maybe do another round, or a few more. Adjust the reps for yourself. Maybe start with just 10 reps for each. With the fist rotations try to make sure your wrist is staying somewhat still and the fist is going round in the rice, which for me means engaging my shoulders and core, rather than rotating the wrist around the fist which stays relatively static in the rice, which is much easier.

For me this is a great warm up for fingerboarding or grip training. If I have done a fingerboard workout or been climbing I will add this finger clawing movement where I put my hands in fully open/extended and then just flex the first two finger joints, so not closing the whole fist but just closing the fingers (think comedy martial arts tiger claw). This (especially the opening movement) works some deep extensor that I feel very intensely and makes my fingers feel super buttery after cranking on them. The thumb-specific ones in the video (eg. crab claw) also feel great, its so weird to get pumped in the thumb flexors, and I'm sure that the rice bucket in general has made my pinch/thumb strength much better.

Play around with reps or whatever, but for me it is important to do it somewhat aggressively so you start to get a bit fatigued by the end of each set, before switching exercise. In the beginning you might get DOMS in some weird places (I did, like in the sides of my fingers and in my palm, and very intensively on the forearm extensors).
 
I found campusing mega aggravated my left elbow pain, and now it's almost entirely subsided

I suspect that in future I will always continue doing a lot of pressing training as that seems to really help
 
. Hard to get the dose right: at the start I was doing too many sessions and making things worse, then at the end too little and not progressing.

Also did some moderate fingerboarding to maintain conditioning, but learnt the hard way that pushing it to max hangs too soon was a good way to delay elbow recovery.
I think I'm also finding this. Its tempting to do lots of rehab on it but as you say sometimes this makes it worse! I tend to follow the 24 hour rule, namely that its the right level if any soreness generated by the exercise disappears within 24 hours. The Climbing Bible: Managing Injuries has been quite useful as well.
 
TdG - with your arm one 120 bar hangs (the 8 seconds on, 8 reps ones) - were you initially using a theraband or similar to take some weight off? I just had a bash at these using a band and they felt promising, although they are definitely quite physical! How long were you resting between each rep?
 
TdG - with your arm one 120 bar hangs (the 8 seconds on, 8 reps ones) - were you initially using a theraband or similar to take some weight off? I just had a bash at these using a band and they felt promising, although they are definitely quite physical! How long were you resting between each rep?
Started by keeping my feet on the ground and pulling until I felt a very mild level of discomfort which was OK 5 mins later and next day. Repeat both sides (even if other side is uninjured). Rest as much as you need between reps to feel recovered.
 
The resistance exercise with a walking pole in the UKC link gave me golfer's elbow in my left hand, which I was using to push against the right!
 

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