Documenting Grinah Stones?

[abarro81]

The majority of people who know of grinah and have gone will have previous information about the already established lines from googling and seeing the many videos that exist or asking about

There's a big difference between having a full guide with descriptions, names, grades, topo etc. and having to dig for a video here or a bit of info there.
Back when I went to to Tom et je ris it involved watching a shitty 20min video of Durif shot from miles away and emailing people I didn't know to find out how to approach. We still got lost (it was actually in a guide, the guide was just shit!). I'm glad it was like that, it all felt a little different and more worthwhile, even if I wouldn't want that to be the default situation for crags.

 

[steveri]

So you have never looked at where it is, or any videos or pictures?

I'll probably just get an Uber, or look at the OS map.

 

[Fultonius]

Maybe the solution is that any topo made requires the solving of some complex puzzle to be able to access? And twenty five questions all asking:

Are you sure you want access to this?

You will not be able to reverse this decision...

Are you still sure?

Do you accept that you are destroying a bit of what makes climbing great by downloading this?

Etc.

And maybe involve some kind of sacrifice? (ritual or otherwise).

And then, some kind of rule that any videos you upload have some kind of watermark, shaming you for sharing? Or maybe there's a private youtube channel, with access only for patreons who donate to some kind of good cause....

 

[El Mocho]

I went to Grinah in the early 2000's, I think before JB went (I remember him going later and raving about it). This was def pre pdf guide or youtube vids. I had heard off someone it was good, so there was a bit of elitism/gatekeeperism to it. I looked at the os map and went on my own, just me and my dog (and an impossible view). I took a rope with me, no pads and did a few rope solos and boulders. It didn't make a massive impression on me. I enjoyed it and sure had fun but I've been lucky enough to experience exploration in climbing in even more wild and remote locations. I may well have preferred it with more info and a bunch of 7,8's and proj to go at.

In general I think climbing benefits from documentation, esp when it comes to fa info. I love reading the fa list in guides where you get little stories about the fas, nuggets of info in to the character's and scenes of the time, and I think this is something a bit missing with bouldering. Bradders mentioned Ben's Groove sitter in his best of list, how many people know the story of the fa? It's not super amazing or funny but adds something to the time and people and problem.

I do think though there is a place for something different, somewhere you can get a more unique experience. I think more people would go and have a good time if there was a readily available topo (as likely would I), and this may be elitist of me to think it, but there are 100s of crags in the Peak/yorks with topos and vids and grades and fas so why not keep one place for people who want something different? In the 20+ years since my only visit I've not had a strong desire to go back, in the past I've got my adventure ticks in other ways. Having been unable to visit exotic/remote locations for a couple of years it's starting to become more attractive to me, with a pad this time and maybe some other people. I had no idea there was a topo and wouldn't have gone looking for one.

I'm not, personally, hugely bothered either way and my experience of the place is 20 years out of date. Times and approaches change and it could be I'm an old fart in my thinking about it. + there are youtube vids and apparently a pdf to those in the know.

 

[Bradders]

Bradders mentioned Ben's Groove sitter in his best of list, how many people know the story of the fa? It's not super amazing or funny but adds something to the time and people and problem.

This is a good analogy for where I'm coming from.

I heard the story of the Ben's Groove Sitter FA verbally from someone. I genuinely can't even remember who I heard it from tbh. I'll not repeat it here, because the version of it that I know is probably totally wrong! Or at least half wrong. However, if anything, to me that increases its magic, its potency. Having something known, but not known, is a fantastic, mystical thing.

It's the same with Grinah. We all know it's there. And how to get to it. People have been raving about it for years. There are a handful of videos and pictures, but that's it. It leaves space for the imagination, allows you to dream. A guide completely changes that and I think it's really quite sad that people are so keen to stamp it out, when they really don't have to.

 

[petejh]

A cool approach for places like Grinah would be to have a written topo, kept in a little weatherproof box which is left at the stones. No photos. Requiring a commitment to the walk to see the topo to do the boulders in said topo.

That satisfies both desires - for documentation and for a bit of mystique.

But we can’t have nice things.

Really I think the people who want it all online fall into JB’s characterisation, which I think is bang on - it’s so much about ego.

Not documenting makes little sense; but neither does climbing yet it manages to be pretty cool despite the lack of reason.

 

[36chambers]

sod Grinah Stones, what's the craic with the Ben's sitter FA? Did Steve push someone off just as they were about to top out?

 

[El Mocho]

sod Grinah Stones, what's the craic with the Ben's sitter FA? Did Steve push someone off just as they were about to top out?

My memory has been proven by others to be pretty patchy. I think JB was around so may confirm/correct my recollections...

We (The Leeds crew) were at Caley one day, doing our normal of cruising around doing 30-40 problems and then bits of soloing etc that we seemed to think was what bouldering consisted of. Myles and Patta were up from Sheffield and were trying the proj sitter to Ben's. Both were doing ok but Myles was looking best on it. His hands were moving so fast on the slaps that from then on we called him 'fast hands Gibson' using the same creative nick name process that led to Harry being called 9 toez, Nick being called Shakin' Nick etc. I think JB has some photos but even using his camera skills Myles' hands are a blur. Myles was wearing very snazzy tartan trousers. Neither did it and they went back to Shef. In the meantime we didn't bother to get on it as we were all lazy fucks.

A few days later Patter and Myles are talking about coming back up to try it again. Myles doesn't own a car. Patter refuses to give him a lift and drives up without him. Patter conquers the project, the guilt of dropping Myles is worth it for the primo fa.

Turns out our dark horse hero Stevey D had made the fa a few days before the Sheffielders first session and just hadn't told anyone...

Just to reconfirm this is all based on my dodgy memory and gossip regarding the non lift. Patta, Myles and Steve are all lovely blokes.

 

[Johnny Brown]

My memory is that it was a Sunday, and it wasn’t really a project on anyone’s radar until that day. Patta came back on the Tuesday and some days later Steve put the claim in for the Monday. It seemed like karma had come for Richie but also remarkably fortuitous timing for Steve. And we weren’t being lazy, none of us could touch it at first. When I did it, probably the winter after, it definitely felt like the hardest thing I’d done up to then, a notch harder than stuff like Brad Pit or Lager lager, really intricate.

Back on topic, I don’t think anyone is suggesting FA history isn’t in the main a brilliant thing and a great part of climbing. Just that at this one venue it might be interesting to do something different.

 

[Bradders]

What I'd heard was that the first and second ascent were both done on the same day, without either climber actually seeing the other there. Seemed too good to be true, but in my head it is.

 

[TdG]

El Mocho, JB – that's my recollection of events too. I don't recall Myles's tartan but I do recall him casually demonstrating that if you're sufficiently strong, toe hooks on Zoo York are just cosmetic. Later saw Tim Clifford flash the groove into the stand, then step off because it was too high. 'twas a time of legends, when dark horses stalked the land…

 

[36chambers]

cheers everyone :2thumbsup: I do enjoy hearing about this stuff

What I'd heard was that the first and second ascent were both done on the same day, without either climber actually seeing the other there. Seemed too good to be true, but in my head it is.

thinking about it, I think I might have heard this version before.

 

[Bradders]

El Mocho, JB – that's my recollection of events too. I don't recall Myles's tartan but I do recall him casually demonstrating that if you're sufficiently strong, toe hooks on Zoo York are just cosmetic. Later saw Tim Clifford flash the groove into the stand, then step off because it was too high. 'twas a time of legends, when dark horses stalked the land…

Reminds me of this old video of Matt Birch doing the sit. Just an incredible display of climbing ability.

https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/caley-roadside-with-matt-birch/

Also, I'd always wondered whether it had been flashed. Not even Aidan Roberts managed it!

 

[ashtond6]

Who is going to send the topo then?

I’d love to go but haven’t yet because there is no info available. It’s gatekeeperism without a doubt.

It’s never going to be worn out because of its location, so why do other people care how adventurous and exploratory my private day up there is that is nothing to do with them?

 

[Dingdong]

El Mocho, JB – that's my recollection of events too. I don't recall Myles's tartan but I do recall him casually demonstrating that if you're sufficiently strong, toe hooks on Zoo York are just cosmetic. Later saw Tim Clifford flash the groove into the stand, then step off because it was too high. 'twas a time of legends, when dark horses stalked the land…

Reminds me of this old video of Matt Birch doing the sit. Just an incredible display of climbing ability.

https://joshuatreebouldering.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/caley-roadside-with-matt-birch/

Also, I'd always wondered whether it had been flashed. Not even Aidan Roberts managed it!

Matt is the only person to flash west side story as far as I’m aware

 

[Johnny Brown]

AFAIK that is a myth. Surprised it’s still doing the rounds.

Who is going to send the topo then?

I’d love to go but haven’t yet because there is no info available. It’s gatekeeperism without a doubt.

If there is a guide being circulated in secret, as Carlos states, then yes that absolutely looks like gatekeeping.

I don’t see how not having a guide in the first place is. The first bouldering guides only appeared in the nineties, when a lot of us started it was the norm to boulder with very little info. I recommend trying it.

 

[Dingdong]

AFAIK that is a myth. Surprised it’s still doing the rounds.

Who is going to send the topo then?

I’d love to go but haven’t yet because there is no info available. It’s gatekeeperism without a doubt.

If there is a guide being circulated in secret, as Carlos states, then yes that absolutely looks like gatekeeping.

I don’t see how not having a guide in the first place is. The first bouldering guides only appeared in the nineties, when a lot of us started it was the norm to boulder with very little info. I recommend trying it.

Interesting, I asked Matt directly about it and he confirmed he flashed it unless the myth is that others have also flashed it but not aware of any others?

 

[Johnny Brown]

He told me he didn’t.

 

[stone]

I've bouldered, on and off, at a bumbly level, since the late 80s. Although I've never made much use of guides, since the very beginning I've been very reliant on being shown where things were and what to do by other people in person. Recently I've found online videos fantastic for expanding and facilitating that.

Some people are visionaries who can unlock the natural potential offered by the rocks. I really admire that. I do potter around a little on rock that I don't know about, but I'm not someone who has the talent to make the most of the rocks unguided.

I guess it is hard for people who do have such a talent to understand how others lack it.

 

[Johnny Brown]

I don’t have a great talent for that either. Most of the new stuff I’ve done has been spotted by others. But no one is stopping you having that experience at literally any other crag in the country. But for people who really value occasionally not being spoon fed, I don’t see how leaving one remote crag undocumented is such an imposition? I suspect you’d get on better than you think.