Collagen Supplementation

[teestub]

Seen a lot of ‘climbing influencers’ pedalling collagen supplements recently, it’s also popped up on a couple of thread, and it has got me thinking it deserved its own for reference.

In my very limited understanding of how the body works: you eat protein, it gets broken down into its constituent amino acids, then your body uses them for what it needs. As such there’s no advantage to eating collagen or collagen supplements over any complete protein source.

Can anyone add any knowledge to this?

 

[Ross.Cooper]

I think you're right that it probably has minimal benefit over the complete protein source. There is a 'questionable' paper on Horst's sales website which claims a spike in collagen synthesis 30 - 60mins after taking a combined collagen/vit c dosage.

From an anecdotal perspective, I've used it for a while with no clear results. I'm using it more religiously now due to my finger injury and I've also splashed out on this snake oil product that I take every day: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FQJZJLU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00FQJZJLU&pd_rd_w=XglIX&pf_rd_p=cbc856ed-1371-4f23-b89d-d3fb30edf66d&pd_rd_wg=4aqsL&pf_rd_r=0NQA36T44ECAEPF0RKM1&pd_rd_r=15e2fb59-7bdb-421e-ab96-3fd2d6da99e4&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSzNQQURRTE9aMk5HJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTU5ODQxTzQ2Q1M3MFVSTFpCJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3OTYyNDAxRzJTNjlDSzI3NjlHJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

If it helps 0.5% then I'll be happy

 

[Oldmanmatt]

Seen a lot of ‘climbing influencers’ pedalling collagen supplements recently, it’s also popped up on a couple of thread, and it has got me thinking it deserved its own for reference.

In my very limited understanding of how the body works: you eat protein, it gets broken down into its constituent amino acids, then your body uses them for what it needs. As such there’s no advantage to eating collagen or collagen supplements over any complete protein source.

Can anyone add any knowledge to this?

Jelly Babies.
Haribo.
They taste better.

What more is there to say?

Oh yeah.

Bacon.

(There ya go, whole protein).

 

[abarro81]

Think it might just be the amino profile/spectrum and having the "right" aminos floating around in high concentration at the relevant moment... but I may be wrong on that!

 

[SA Chris]

If you have an indication of, or family history of, Dupuytren's I'd steer well clear too.

 

[turnipturned]

If you have an indication of, or family history of, Dupuytren's I'd steer well clear too.

Why?

 

[SA Chris]

Can make it worse, Collagen is what causes the bumps and cords to form.

Mine definitely got worse rapidly while I was taking MSG / Chondroitin Supplements, but slowed down as soon as I stopped.

 

[teestub]

If you have an indication of, or family history of, Dupuytren's I'd steer well clear too.

Are you thinking of Chondritin, which may adversely impact Dupuytens? Not seen anything about collagen

 

[turnipturned]

Can make it worse, Collagen is what causes the bumps and cords to form.

Mine definitely got worse rapidly while I was taking MSG / Chondroitin Supplements, but slowed down as soon as I stopped.

Interesting, I was taking it daily with orange juicy after I did a grade 2/3 shoulder separation. Haven’t noticed my Dupuytren getting any worse.

Funnily enough, I notice I still had halve a bag left in the cub board, so started taking it again..... maybe I stop

 

[SA Chris]

I meant Glucosaminne Sulphate not MSG, obv, sorry

 

[SA Chris]

If you have an indication of, or family history of, Dupuytren's I'd steer well clear too.

Are you thinking of Chondritin, which may adversely impact Dupuytens? Not seen anything about collagen

I'm no expert, bit if the cords are made of collagen, surely having an excess of it in your blood is a bad idea?

 

[Yossarian]

I was given some MyProtein collagen the other day. It is spectacularly disgusting - almost comically so. It's supposed to be grape flavour, but it actually tastes like the non-specific smell of cheap bubblegum, without the fruitiness. I kind of like it, purely on the basis that supplementation this disgusting has got to be weapons-grade and if I can hold it down it won't be long before I rip the Beastmaker in half...

 

[Ross.Cooper]

I meant Glucosaminne Sulphate not MSG, obv, sorry

You may have meant MSM - Joint pills often have Glucosamine, MSM and Chondrotin in them

 

[mrjonathanr]

Think it might just be the amino profile/spectrum and having the "right" aminos floating around in high concentration at the relevant moment... but I may be wrong on that!

Think it is meant to be the concentration of proline and glycine surrounding the connective tissue as they are used thus infusing them when they are stimulated to synthesise more collagen. Leucine is also key for signalling protein synthesis but that’s generally available in protein sources.


At the end of the day there is a lot of poorly understood science going on here, myself included, but it is cheaper than going to the physio, I figure it has to be worth a punt.

 

[erm sam]

DMC talks about collagen with ref to science at the end, 17mins ish, of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNVnGCxPDE

 

[teestub]

The study that D Mac references is the one that’s cropped up before
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5183725/
Collagen is only compared to a maltodextrin placebo rather than another protein source, so doesn’t provide any comparison, but it does have this nugget in from mouse studies

Mouse studies that used 14C-labeled gelatin hydrolysate (33) further demonstrated that, although tracer from proline could be incorporated into skin collagen at the same rate as tracer from gelatin, tracer from the gelatin was incorporated into the collagen of cartilage and muscle twice as much as tracer from proline (33). These data suggest that musculoskeletal collagen synthesis is greater in response to gelatin than to individual amino acids.

 

[tomtom]

Gravy wins again then?

 

[SA Chris]

Wine gums FTW!

 

[Bradders]

Can make it worse, Collagen is what causes the bumps and cords to form.

Mine definitely got worse rapidly while I was taking MSG / Chondroitin Supplements, but slowed down as soon as I stopped.

Interesting, I was taking it daily with orange juicy after I did a grade 2/3 shoulder separation. Haven’t noticed my Dupuytren getting any worse.

Funnily enough, I notice I still had halve a bag left in the cub board, so started taking it again..... maybe I stop

Yeah interesting. I tried taking some last year after a minor finger tweak (after seeing D Mac and Tom Herbert talking about it on their social media), and subsequently developed a small lump in my palm that could have been the start of dupuytrens, or was maybe just scar tissue.

Hard to know, but I think it's reduced in size since I stopped taking the collagen.

 

[SA Chris]

Sadly probably DC. They start as lumps and at first it's very noticeable when it grows, but then you seem to desensitise to it and your hand seems to adapt around it and it feels like it gets smaller as a result, but it's probably still there.

I had a second one come on quickly a couple of years ago (had one on pinkie for ages, second one now on ring finger), and was very bothersome at first, but hardly notice it now, except when pulling on bucket sized holds on steeper walls and on the occasion when I grab a knob hold "bottle" style.