Coaching, training plan, advice from a mate?

[Liamhutch89]

I'm sure there will be a few good insights in Ondra's new climbing course, but fooking $200 for it! I would have purchased a book for up to around £30, but this is taking the piss.

https://altitudeclimbing.com/lead-climbing-signup/?adb_ad_id=690195178764&adb_ad_source=google&adb_click_id=CjwKCAiAt5euBhB9EiwAdkXWO0gv20LdLqHu5957eOYAB6mbtKFLDsQzgxywlZPyTpPbQlYT7j4oNBoCUHYQAvD_BwE&adb_campaign_id=21005436194&adb_adgroup_id=158271136749&adb_target_id=kwd-355110256009&adb_placement=&adb_target=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAt5euBhB9EiwAdkXWO0gv20LdLqHu5957eOYAB6mbtKFLDsQzgxywlZPyTpPbQlYT7j4oNBoCUHYQAvD_BwE

 

[Fiend]

50 video tutorials and lifetime access, hmmm seems a bit more than £30 worth to me.

Also, what would you rather pay for: 1000 instances of getting virtual coaching from the best and one of the most eloquent climbers alive, or one instance of a few planks being shoved across a grotty stream in the Peaks??

P.S. Just in case:

'ach romuluSngan vIqelchoHDI',

'ej bIr rIQmoH' 'ej SuvwI', QumpIn je rur https://shorturl.at/cesz8;

'ach suvwI' Qu' vIpIH.

'ach tangq 63364895 a' targhmey veqlargh.
yo' qIjDaq ba'choH'a' 'ej pIvlIj yItlhob. romuluSngan veSDujmey

'ach malja' wIHoHtaHvIS%, SoHvaD QomchoHbej Humanpu' 'e' yIchaw'.

ghotpu'bogh ponglu'chugh nuvpu'

:beer2:

 

[tim palmer]

https://latticetraining.com/product/a-climbers-guide-to-training-course/

Virtually the same price for the same thing from your friends at lattice.

All of this stuff is a massive grift but hey ho it keeps the maclaren fuelled up.

 

[spidermonkey09]

it keeps the maclaren fuelled up.

Ondra has himself a Benz!

https://www.adamondra.com/introducing-quot-dolphin-quot-my-new-mercedes-benz-car-hotel-and-second-home-at-once/

 

[tim palmer]

it keeps the maclaren fuelled up.

Ondra has himself a Benz!

https://www.adamondra.com/introducing-quot-dolphin-quot-my-new-mercedes-benz-car-hotel-and-second-home-at-once/

Not really the same league is it. He is also the greatest performance climber of all time, if anyone should be making some coin from this buy low, sell high, snake oil salesmanship it should be him

 

[spidermonkey09]

I did think it looked a bit low spec. Surely mercedes could do better than that!

 

[Liamhutch89]

50 video tutorials and lifetime access, hmmm seems a bit more than £30 worth to me.

But in reality, it is the same sort of content that would have been put in a book 15 years ago.

I'm not surprised that Lattice do similar on the basis that they sell branded generic yoga mats and loading pins with a huge mark up.

 

[Adam Lincoln]

50 video tutorials and lifetime access, hmmm seems a bit more than £30 worth to me.

But in reality, it is the same sort of content that would have been put in a book 15 years ago.

I'm not surprised that Lattice do similar on the basis that they sell branded generic yoga mats and loading pins with a huge mark up.

Why are you so bothered? They don't have a gun to your head to buy a plan. They hit a niche in the market at the time so fair play to them.

 

[Liamhutch89]

Why are you so bothered? They don't have a gun to your head to buy a plan. They hit a niche in the market at the time so fair play to them.

I'm not. This thread is in the 'news' section of the forum and this course was newsworthy IMO. We're simply discussing it.

 

[remus]

https://latticetraining.com/product/a-climbers-guide-to-training-course/

Virtually the same price for the same thing from your friends at lattice.

All of this stuff is a massive grift but hey ho it keeps the maclaren fuelled up.

I'd be interested if you had the same opinion after actually watching the lattice course. I've worked at lattice for 8 or 9 years (not as a coach mind) and I still learnt a decent amount when I was test running it. If you want to learn about training for climbing I think it's one of the best resources currently available.

If you're genuinely interested, willing to watch the full course and happy to send feedback then drop me a DM and I'll give you access.

 

[tim palmer]

That is a very kind offer, I will happily take you up on it and try to be open minded.

 

[abarro81]

But in reality, it is the same sort of content that would have been put in a book 15 years ago.

15 years ago stuff of any real quality wasn't in existence for climbing. Even 10 years ago, what was out there was written as a hobby and not to make money as a business with emplyees etc. - Horst was writting books whilst being a weatherman or whatever. I wrote my little training pdf 11 years ago and chatted to Tom about whether to write a book - we decided against it as the time investment would not have been worth it.

The free or cheap stuff is still out there plenty for those who want it, the neatly curated and well presented packages are there for those who want to pay a couple of hundred quid to be handed 10 hours worth of stuff rather than have to work through lots more hours worth of searching, reading, working out what to listen to, etc... Pay your money (or not) and make your choice. There are lots of things in the world where you can DIY it for free/cheap or pay money to existing experts to make your life easier :shrug: Climbing largely isn't how it used to be, with people just putting info out in pdfs and dodgy translations of Macia training plans, but that's partly because people want videos and smartphone apps these days... I miss the old ways a bit, but if I were young now I'd probably be asking for these as presents to shortcut reading PlanetFear articles by Gresh and searching rowing forums trying to understand how other sports get fit.

 

[remus]

That is a very kind offer, I will happily take you up on it and try to be open minded.

Drop me a PM on here with your email address and I'll get you setup. Im on insta as remuscrimp so drop me a message there instead if it's easier.

 

[tim palmer]

But in reality, it is the same sort of content that would have been put in a book 15 years ago.

15 years ago stuff of any real quality wasn't in existence for climbing. Even 10 years ago, what was out there was written as a hobby and not to make money as a business with emplyees etc. - Horst was writting books whilst being a weatherman or whatever. I wrote my little training pdf 11 years ago and chatted to Tom about whether to write a book - we decided against it as the time investment would not have been worth it.

The free or cheap stuff is still out there plenty for those who want it, the neatly curated and well presented packages are there for those who want to pay a couple of hundred quid to be handed 10 hours worth of stuff rather than have to work through lots more hours worth of searching, reading, working out what to listen to, etc... Pay your money (or not) and make your choice. There are lots of things in the world where you can DIY it for free/cheap or pay money to existing experts to make your life easier :shrug: Climbing largely isn't how it used to be, with people just putting info out in pdfs and dodgy translations of Macia training plans, but that's partly because people want videos and smartphone apps these days... I miss the old ways a bit, but if I were young now I'd probably be asking for these as presents to shortcut reading PlanetFear articles by Gresh and searching rowing forums trying to understand how other sports get fit.

How do we know if any of the stuff we have today is any better than that of yesteryear, is it not probable that all or the vast majority the improvements we see now are as a result of better and more climbing walls and the consequent earlier and easier access to climbing?

 

[abarro81]

How do we know if any of the stuff we have today is any better than that of yesteryear

Maybe I expressed myself poorly. 15 years ago "the stuff" didn't really exist in a one-stop-shop with descriptions of how to apply it to climbing - it was piecing together rumours, hearsay, articles here and there, what other sports did... 15 years ago it wasn't in a nicely put together thing (book or online multi-media service), you had to make the book yourself. I mean quality of the materials in that sense, rather than the end product being "quality" training advice. So I'm sure Jacob and Patxi knew how to train well 15 years ago, but 15 years ago it was a lot harder for the enthusiastic punter like me to access that info - it's "better" in that sense.

How do we know if any of the stuff we have today is any better than that of yesteryear, is it not probable that all or the vast majority the improvements we see now are as a result of [...] earlier and easier access to climbing?

I agree that this is probably the biggest driver in general top-end improvements - bigger pool of people taking up the sport younger.

 

[Liamhutch89]

But in reality, it is the same sort of content that would have been put in a book 15 years ago.

15 years ago stuff of any real quality wasn't in existence for climbing. Even 10 years ago, what was out there was written as a hobby and not to make money as a business with emplyees etc. - Horst was writting books whilst being a weatherman or whatever. I wrote my little training pdf 11 years ago and chatted to Tom about whether to write a book - we decided against it as the time investment would not have been worth it.

The free or cheap stuff is still out there plenty for those who want it, the neatly curated and well presented packages are there for those who want to pay a couple of hundred quid to be handed 10 hours worth of stuff rather than have to work through lots more hours worth of searching, reading, working out what to listen to, etc... Pay your money (or not) and make your choice. There are lots of things in the world where you can DIY it for free/cheap or pay money to existing experts to make your life easier :shrug: Climbing largely isn't how it used to be, with people just putting info out in pdfs and dodgy translations of Macia training plans, but that's partly because people want videos and smartphone apps these days... I miss the old ways a bit, but if I were young now I'd probably be asking for these as presents to shortcut reading PlanetFear articles by Gresh and searching rowing forums trying to understand how other sports get fit.

I agree with what you're saying really, i'm basically being the 'old man shakes fist at cloud' meme. The world is different now, although Ned Feehally managed to put out a nice book not too long ago, and Dave Mac's is still relevant too. (I'm aware that Ned and Dave are not Ondra + support team)

Sometimes, I deliberate on whether the time investment is worth it for a 2 hour podcast with a climber/coach for the scarce, useful bits of information I might hear. This feels like a more extreme version of that problem. I'm slightly curious whether Ondra has some little bits of useful information that I've not heard before, but not curious enough to fork out $200, especially after seeing the taster video on heelhooking, which seems incredibly basic - I saw more nuance in a YouTube video with Drew Ruana (who's not shit at heelhooks himself).

I expect it's probably a nice product for people who are newer to climbing and not the types who regularly frequent forums to discuss argue about the intricacies of training and marginal gains.

As much as it's fun to poke at Lattice, I appreciate that they do actual 1:1 personalised coaching. That's something that I thought was worth paying for and did for a period in 2022. I found it to be good and don't regret doing it, although in hindsight there were a lot of things programmed that I now believe were ineffective for my goals and I've made better progress sorting my own training.

 

[tim palmer]

I agree that this is probably the biggest driver in general top-end improvements - bigger pool of people taking up the sport younger.

Exactly so it chafes a bit to see companies and individuals charging large amounts of money for "expertise" in a phenomenon which they likely had little or no influence over. That being said I am sure I waste money on things which are a lot more pointless.

Anyway I will be true to my word and watch the lattice course and you never know maybe I will be a convert.

 

[tim palmer]

That being said I am sure I waste money on things which are a lot more pointless.

but at least booze can be delicious.

 

[Dingdong]

I agree that this is probably the biggest driver in general top-end improvements - bigger pool of people taking up the sport younger.

Exactly so it chafes a bit to see companies and individuals charging large amounts of money for "expertise" in a phenomenon which they likely had little or no influence over. That being said I am sure I waste money on things which are a lot more pointless.

Anyway I will be true to my word and watch the lattice course and you never know maybe I will be a convert.

If you are not a child prodigy but instead a 30 something year old with work, family, life commitments etc having someone write a plan for you takes all the guesswork and time management out of the equation and means you can focus on consistent structured training that in my opinion, no doubt benefits people. Whether it’s lattice or any other of the hundreds of coaches out there, I don’t think anyone goes into it expecting a magic bullet but just a hand with structuring their training. Especially around certain projects. Also the accountability aspect helps a lot of people too when they have to report into a coach…

 

[Wellsy]

Accountability is a big part of it for me