British men who have climbed >= E9 and british women who have climbed >= E7

[El Mocho]

History section - "Originally graded 8a but with pre-placed protection, and a hanging rope, just in case! Still not led in "pure" style"

And the text in the main guide says "it still awaits a leader who can place the gear 'mid-dyno' and keep going. The true grade could be close to E10".

Well done El Mocho, E10 leader

Cool, E10 it is.

 

[grimer]

Rodney Mullen IIRC was on an OTE front cover? Or maybe not.

Sean Myles led it with some ethical issue, obvs the pre-placed peg. He got some stick and, as i recall, went back and reled in a purer style.

Dave Mus (snr) was, I believe, one of the critics, and was then the YMC guidebook editor. I also think there was some Peak / Yorkshire rivalry involved.

SM wrote a letter to the mags (ah, nostalgia) and I remember the last line being something like "I can't believe tyou left my route out of the guide Dave." as DM had left RM out of the recently published Yorkshire Grit guide.

So ethical disputes, area rivalries, printed guides, letters to the mags... different times.

 

[nai]

Is it E7 7a for Rodney or 6c (though I'm sceptical as to whether it really matters about the English tech at this level)?

Good opportunity to lead a change from uk tech to sport grades for harder trad toutes?

 

[Will Hunt]

I'm surprised that was seen as so controversial. Sounds like small beer compared to all the frigs that were employed to get up Yorkshire limestone routes, none of which are questioned.

 

[mrjonathanr]

Is it E7 7a for Rodney or 6c (though I'm sceptical as to whether it really matters about the English tech at this level)?

Good opportunity to lead a change from uk tech to sport grades for harder trad toutes?

IIRC Sean gave it straight 8a and got sufficient stick that he wrote an article to explain his reasoning. Basically, he said it's a redpoint.

 

[Will Hunt]

Is it E7 7a for Rodney or 6c (though I'm sceptical as to whether it really matters about the English tech at this level)?

Good opportunity to lead a change from uk tech to sport grades for harder trad toutes?

IIRC Sean gave it straight 8a and got sufficient stick that he wrote an article to explain his reasoning. Basically, he said it's a redpoint.

This is something I'd like to see happen but it will take time and a way to gather up the knowledge (the UKC database could make a start). The CC have done it with their Pembroke guide, giving all routes of E5 and above an accompanying sport grade. You could argue that for some gritstone routes (Slip n' Slide springs to mind) you'd be better off trying to give a bouldering grade, while others (Milky Way) would be better off with a sport grade. The CC have a huge advantage in doing it for Pembroke in that the hard routes there get more traffic than anywhere else. Bar a few notable exceptions, most routes in Yorkshire of, say, E5 and above see only a few disparate repeats. I imagine many are unrepeated.

 

[Johnny Brown]

"it still awaits a leader who can place the gear 'mid-dyno' and keep going. The true grade could be close to E10".

Well done El Mocho, E10 leader

Cool, E10 it is.

Back around.

 

[remus]

I've been through the last few pages and added in anyone that was missing, plus a few bonus ascents that seemed interesting. Hopefully haven't done anything too controversial :lol:

Men https://climbing-history.org/list/6
Women https://climbing-history.org/list/7

Replies to a few points:

Men v women grade split: personally im mainly interested in recording significant stuff done by men and women. I think using the same criteria for men and women risks forgetting about lots of interesting ascents by women, and the current criteria seem to have produced a fairly manageable list, so I think I'll keep it as is for the moment.

[Pre placed gear on The Big Issue]
Personally, i'd scratch them unless all other ascents on the list are justified with exactly how they were climbed. Not sure why it became ok to treat this route differently from any other well protected sport style trad route. Without placing gear it's just an 8a/+ clip up.

Given their ascents are in a minority it's easier to just make a note about how they climbed it. Everyone knows it is poor style compared to placing the kit on lead and I want to avoid have to decide what counts as a valid ascent if it can be avoided.

Tim Emmett has done 'The Path' 5.14R in Canada, unsure what the trad grade would ?E9

https://gripped.com/news/tim-emmett-and-read-macadam-send-the-path-5-14r-in-rockies/

I've plucked E9 out of the air for this. Seems about right for safe-ish 8b+?

I've bumped transcendence up to E9. Malc is no soft touch and Dan V seems convinced it has some hard moves on it.

 

[remus]

Anyone fancy a punt on a grade for tribe?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/10/second_ascent_of_tribe_-_worlds_hardest_trad_route_-_by_james_pearson-72593

 

[petejh]

Anyone fancy a punt on a grade for tribe?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2020/10/second_ascent_of_tribe_-_worlds_hardest_trad_route_-_by_james_pearson-72593

If you're suggesting safe-ish 8b+ is E9 then is it that hard to extrapolate?
safe-ish 8c-8c+ E10
safe-ish 9a-9a+ E11
safe-ish Culm steep slab E12, obvs

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Remus, I've just watched the fantastic video of Ryan on Sleepy Hollow - media linked to your thread.

I think that depth of information is really valuable. Could it be that your list becomes a go to place for media, as well as records of significant trad ascents?

For James Pearson, I think it would be better to include his other ascents too. Eg: Is Not Always Pasqua, The Groove, as well as The Walk of Life. And Harder Faster - especially as some of these are first ascents.

PS. agree with your comments about not wanting to be the judge of what constitutes a "valid ascent" etc. Also, in the context of your comments, I understand the grade split too.

 

[T_B]

It would be really great if someone from Gen Z had a go at Dr Doolittle. Or maybe it needs an old skool crimper to come out of retirement? I mean it’s hiding in plain sight is it not? I’ve never heard of anyone trying it. The story of John Arran putting cut up credit cards into his shoes to make them stiffer makes you wonder whether it might be easier in shoes other than Boreals.

 

[remus]

Remus, I've just watched the fantastic video of Ryan on Sleepy Hollow - media linked to your thread.

I think that depth of information is really valuable. Could it be that your list becomes a go to place for media, as well as records of significant trad ascents?

Glad you enjoyed the vid Dave. Longer term Id definitely like to start filling it out with more content like that, and maybe even little essays about significant climbers/climbs/ascents. Think something like peak rock but more of an ongoing project than a one off.

Just need to find some more anoraks who are keen to get involved!

If I ever get round to it I was thinking it might be fun to put together some longer form pieces (long blog post style) based on some of the lists.

There's also the functionality to do a project like Ed G-S put together earlier this year (where you can search for problems and get beat vids), but it doesn't really fit under the 'climbing history' banner.

For James Pearson, I think it would be better to include his other ascents too. Eg: Is Not Always Pasqua, The Groove, as well as The Walk of Life. And Harder Faster - especially as some of these are first ascents.

Agreed, would be keen to add in some more of Jame's routes and problems as he's done a lot around the UK (pembroke onsights etc.)

 

[SA Chris]

Didn't reliose there were vids attached. there goes a couple of hours. Wonder if you would be allowed to link to Reel Rock etc?

 

[remus]

Didn't reliose there were vids attached. there goes a couple of hours. Wonder if you would be allowed to link to Reel Rock etc?

If it's a public vid I can link in to a specific timestamp but if it's a payed vid it wont work (other than just taking you to somewhere you could pay for the full thing). If someone was feeling super keen they could go through and add all the stuff in stone love, committed etc.

 

[SA Chris]

True enough, probably more effort than worth. Either way, a fantastic effort getting what you have together.

 

[remus]

Ed Booth got in touch on fb to help with the addition of a few ascents of Rare Lichen and Gribin Wall Climb

Men https://climbing-history.org/list/6
Women https://climbing-history.org/list/7

 

[Alex-the-Alex]

Cool list. Niall McNair did the Dark Side a few years ago as a highball. Is that being discounted?

 

[remus]

I'm staying away from stuff done in a highball style for the moment. No doubt there's stuff done with pads that more than warrants a trad grade, but it's so hard to draw a sensible line somewhere about what's worth a trad grade and what's worth a bouldering grade.

 

[remus]

Anyone able to id the climber in this clip of Knockin on Heavens Door from consumed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alHHobRndvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG8jcH_uIms