British men who have climbed >= E9 and british women who have climbed >= E7
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Johnny Brown
Well-Known Member
cheque said:
What grade do they give it?
Yep, “Originally climbed with a peg pre-placed, then subsequently led placing gear on lead by both Miles (sic?) and Bransby”.
It describes it as having only had one repeat 20 years on which, given the book came out in 2014 and the FA date is March 1991 suggests that the Ilkley script was ready quite a long way in advance! Coming up to 30 years without a third ascensionist now?
It describes it as having only had one repeat 20 years on which, given the book came out in 2014 and the FA date is March 1991 suggests that the Ilkley script was ready quite a long way in advance! Coming up to 30 years without a third ascensionist now?
El Mocho
Well-Known Member
Johnny Brown said:
Seem to remember it was bog standard Myles E7. I can't really see E9 for it, maybe if you didn't bother with the hand placed peg but I don't think what it's graded for.
If I remember correctly (I might have even chatted to Sean about it really briefly) Sean first lead it with the peg pre placed (it's hand placed in a little pocket). He got some stick for this. He then led it again - climbed up, placed the peg, tried to carry on but fell off, lowered down, pulled the ropes then re led with the peg in. It got a weird write up in an earlier guide where they implied it hadn't had a proper ascent (this might have been before he led it the second time). When I did it I climbed up, placed the peg and then downclimbed to the ground, had a rest and then led it after (I don't think I had a go in between and fell off but I might have done).
I guess, ethically, my ascent counts as legit and you could argue both of Seans didn't quite match the best practice (although is a hand placed peg on grit ever going to be best practice). Personally I can't see much difference between them, and in fact it will have been physically harder the way Sean first did it as he actually clipped the pre placed peg on the lead go that he did the route.
Sorry this is a bit OT but can sometimes be good to get the facts (or a semblance of them) out there. Just to reiterate I had no problem with how Sean first climbed it - he was honest about what he had done, and I didn't set out to make the first 'proper' ascent of it or anything.
T_B
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cheque said:
I tried it on a rope in September ‘99 with Nic Sellers and Richie Patterson. I can’t remember if Nic did it or went back and led it but IIRC we had the right sized peg (a lost arrow) and it slotted in remarkably well. Weird that it’s given E9 in the guidebook as it was E7 7a.
Will Hunt
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I can get this changed in the select guide. Is it E7 7a for Rodney or 6c (though I'm sceptical as to whether it really matters about the English tech at this level)? And E8 for New Statesman? I think I've seen it talked about as E8 more than E9 nowadays.
DAVETHOMAS90
Don't die with your music still inside you ;)
Will, it's not 7a. If that helps.
I should add, I was belaying Sean on Rodney Mullen.
Had to show him how to do it of course ;D :whistle: (R heel hook on aréte for RH slap again to good hold..)
The only debate was really over whether it was 8a sport.
I also don't understand how it could be considered that Sean's ascent wasn't in any way legit - other than for it being practiced etc first, and a re-climb. :shrug:
The peg (yes, Lost Arrow) was covered in tape to protect the rock, and placed on lead. It's effectively a camming device. The only problem was the bad rope burn Sean was getting on his leg when he fell off.
Should go back to do it!
I should add, I was belaying Sean on Rodney Mullen.
Had to show him how to do it of course ;D :whistle: (R heel hook on aréte for RH slap again to good hold..)
The only debate was really over whether it was 8a sport.
I also don't understand how it could be considered that Sean's ascent wasn't in any way legit - other than for it being practiced etc first, and a re-climb. :shrug:
The peg (yes, Lost Arrow) was covered in tape to protect the rock, and placed on lead. It's effectively a camming device. The only problem was the bad rope burn Sean was getting on his leg when he fell off.
Should go back to do it!
DAVETHOMAS90
Don't die with your music still inside you ;)
T_B said:
Sorry TB, edited my earlier post.
Yes, keen to go back! Great venue for not so cold conditions, so should still be in when the lockdown finishes .. hope.. fully..!
El Mocho
Well-Known Member
T_B said:
Messiah is quite a good comparison. Both a tiny bit bold to get to gear and then a harder top. I would say Rodney is a bit more involved to get to the peg and the crux sequence is a little longer, maybe a grade harder (which fits with the original E6 grade for Messiah vs the original E7 for Rodney). It could be argued it's E8 for Rodney? It would be a hard ground up/flash - I couldn't of done it in that style at the time and I did do Messiah gu (2nd go?) a year later.
DAVETHOMAS90 said:
It seemed pretty harsh at the time. I think the argument was it had pre-placed gear the first time and the second time was a yo-yo (although like I said I think the second time was after the guide had come out where the 'doubts'* were raised about the style of the original ascent, guess this was at least partly why Sean went back and re led it?)
I don't know why this route/ascent got called out so much, maybe because Sean was a peak raider ;D - if the same strict ethics were applied to other routes in Yorkshire (or elsewhere) we'd have to re write massive sections of history.
*I can't even remember what it said in the guide about it, I'm sure there was something, maybe in the history section at the back
History section - "Originally graded 8a but with pre-placed protection, and a hanging rope, just in case! Still not led in "pure" style"
And the text in the main guide says "it still awaits a leader who can place the gear 'mid-dyno' and keep going. The true grade could be close to E10".
Well done El Mocho, E10 leader
And the text in the main guide says "it still awaits a leader who can place the gear 'mid-dyno' and keep going. The true grade could be close to E10".
Well done El Mocho, E10 leader
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