A somewhat different ethical dilemma.

[Fiend]

Tied down skyhooks - we all use them right, on our non-UKC-endorsed onsights of bolder / sketchier stuff (apart from on Northumberland sandstone of course). Taped down, blutacked down, weighted down, tied down to lower gear, tied down to a ground anchor.

I have used them in a variety of forms, usually tied down to the ground. Sometimes I've managed to downclimb myself to tension them, sometimes I've taken a trailing rope and asked my belayer to tighten it through a gri-gri / clove-hitch. Once I got my belayer just to stand on the trailing rope for speed.

I have a friend who, possibly in jest, has grumbled that getting the belayer to help when one is already partway up the route is effectively combined tactics / cheating / aid point or similar. I'm pretty sure he's talking pure shite but somewhat worryingly haven't come up with a cast iron refutation yet.

Thus throwing it open to the wisdom of UKB. Genuine topic, as geeky as it is...


P.S. I won't be asking shark to ban anyone who posts that they are appalled by this discussion / skyhook use, not even if they say so and then refuse to debate it further. Probably.

 

[andy popp]

I have used them in a variety of forms, usually tied down to the ground. Sometimes I've managed to downclimb myself to tension them, sometimes I've taken a trailing rope and asked my belayer to tighten it through a gri-gri / clove-hitch. Once I got my belayer just to stand on the trailing rope for speed.

Hard to logically separate any of that from belaying. Hence, using your friend's logic, belaying is also a form of combined tactics.

Just to be clear, I am far too pure to have ever used a skyhook.

 

[jwi]

The ideal style we strive for is a solitary onsight free solo; a belay and gear is an acceptable compromise that we make because we value life over style. Any question of style can be answered by putting it to the test: what would an onsight free soloist do? An onsight free soloist can climb up and down as much as they like, and even jump off if it is safe, thus downclimbing or jumping down to the nearest rest is always within the realms of a free ascent.

Building human towers are not within the realm of free climbing as a solitary onsight soloist cannot do that. Gear and a belay is OK as long as we don't weight it, it just goes to show that we have to big fear of death to climb the route in the best style but we have demonstrated sufficient physical fortitude for an ideal ascent, even if we mentally are not there (as long as we don't clip gear above or head before crux moves, letting the counterweight of the rope pull us up slightly).

I have skyhooks and birdbeaks, but do not use them. Because bolts.

 

[SA Chris]

met office have just issued an amber alert for a teacup storm warning.

 

[Muenchener]

Tied down skyhooks - we all use them right,

I set off to the crag with the intention of using one once. Arrived at the base of Route X at sandstone Crag Y not in Norhumberland. Thought "perhaps I should test this first". Placed hook on hold; sat on hook; hook sliced through hold like knife through butter.

 

[SA Chris]

Bet users of Bowles were not happy.

 

[Muenchener]

I went on a rainy day so nobody would see me :whistle:

 

[tomtom]

Bet users of Bowles were not happy.

just scuffed it with your foot a few times until if fitted in

 

[Fiend]

Definitely a storm in a tea-cup, just the same as an arbitrary 2 pad cut-off point.

I really like micro-ethics in a geeky sort of way though. It's refreshingly inconsequential and philosophical - even though I advocate "spirit of the law not letter of the law" most of the time.

The onsight free soloist would take the hook to clip in and rest on and scream for rescue, maybe....