[groovy_nut]

OK this is my first time posting here so please don't be too tough on me - I would have posted this over on UKC but quite frankly don't think I can really be bothered with all the nonsense over there at the minute, plus you guys all seem really helpful when you want to be.

Right my problem is that I really want to climb. I do, honestly I really do. I also want to improve as I really enjoy pushing myself, but herein lies the problem - I like to push myself but have been finding it increasingly hard to do so. I'm finding that while I really want to climb whilst I'm sat here at work or at home, when I actually get to the crag I keep coming up with excuses not to rack up.

I'm not sure if my issues are to do with fear of falling (for instance I'm completely useless at sport climbing because I'm terrified of falling. Trad isn't so bad because I have less opportunity to think about it), fear of failure (what if I can't do it?!), the need for encouragement (I tend to get on much better with my more positive climbing partners who are mostly disappearing, sadly), or something else?

I live in the London area and as such don't get out on rock anywhere near as much as I would like, but when I do get the opportunity I seem to waste it sometimes and this depresses me. Take this weekend for a start - I was working in Glasgow on Saturday so travelled up on Friday and back yesterday - gave myself a couple of days to play with. My partner also came with me along with rack and rope etc. We visited 3 crags and all I did was solo a few VDiffs in trainers - I kept making excuses not to climb (OK so the injury excuses were reasonable as I am in recovery, but even so!).

I think I just need a kick up the behind but until I find someone who is willing and able to do that (and I don't mean literally!) can any of you offer any advice to someone becoming increasingly sad and frustrated with herself?

[SA Chris]

MTFU!

(Man The Fuck Up!)

Yes it's scary, yes you might fail, yes you might fall, accept it. Be prepared to get mileage in. You clearly think you want to push yourself, but the reality of it is clearly different. Get out and just enjoy climbing, be it seconding, bouldering, anything. Never underestimate quantity over difficulty once in a while.

[Dr T]

If you live in London go down and do some top-roping on on the sandstone

it'll
1) get you comfortable about being off the deck
2) mean if you can crank on the soft powdery stuff you'll have extra confidence when what you're climbing actually has holds

or possibly put you off altogether but hey doesn't sound like you're doing much right now....

personally it's not my cup of tea even though I live pretty close but I did do quite a bit down there when I first started out and it never did me any harm....

[i.munro]

Sounds a bit like my attitude, back when  I was young, dinosaurs roamed the earth & trad was the only sort of climbing there was.

Turned out I didn't like leading because I had zero interest in scaring the c^&&p out of myself.

Fast forward to today & I never have the same problem with bouldering. Perhaps you just need to work out
what you enjoy about climbing. People like different stuff. I've climbed with peeps who haven't had a good day unless they thought they were going to die at least once.

For me it's the movement over rock & being in beautiful places.
Occasionally I do  bit of sport but a good sport route for me is a good boulder problem unfortunately placed halfway up a cliff.

[Fiend]

MTFU!

(Man The Fuck Up!)

WTFU I think.

Another _nut with postings about psychological issues 

1. Don't climb on Southern Sandstone, I reckon for most people top-roping on it is highly detrimental to your leading as it's training you for the security of the top-rope.

2. You're looking at some issues:

I'm not sure if my issues are to do with fear of falling (for instance I'm completely useless at sport climbing because I'm terrified of falling. Trad isn't so bad because I have less opportunity to think about it), fear of failure (what if I can't do it?!), the need for encouragement (I tend to get on much better with my more positive climbing partners who are mostly disappearing, sadly), or something else?

Keep looking. Be brutally honest with yourself. Maybe it's the issues you highlighted, maybe it's something else and scrupulous self-honesty and self-awareness will find it out.

3. Then tackle those issues. Find ways to deal with them. Train for them (e.g. scared of falling = do falling practise). Recognise when they're inhibiting you and get into the habit of at least trying to overcome them (e.g. you're at a crag and reluctant to climb = realise that it is, for example, fear of failure = fight against it using that awareness).

4. Read The Rock Warrior's Way. If it is the issues you mention above then it deals specifically with those issues.

[Fiend]

Right my problem is that I really want to climb. I do, honestly I really do. I also want to improve as I really enjoy pushing myself, but herein lies the problem - I like to push myself but have been finding it increasingly hard to do so. I'm finding that while I really want to climb whilst I'm sat here at work or at home, when I actually get to the crag I keep coming up with excuses not to rack up.

Further, progressing with climbing and pushing oneself, for many people (not the fortunate few with crystal clear minds and no inhibitions) IS really fucking hard. Climbing IS challenging, physically, mentally, tactically, emotionally - and dealing with that challenge, getting to grips with it, is in itself a challenge - the one you're currently facing. Accept that, be aware of it....and try to deal with it (no that's not easy....but it's often what needs to be done).

[SA Chris]

MTFU!

(Man The Fuck Up!)

WTFU I think.

Another _nut with postings about psychological issues 

W or M, they still need to man up.

I was wondering if they were related?

First question you need to ask yourself is do you really want climb? It may be that you are enamoured with the "romantic ideal" of what climbing is about when it is far enough away, but as soon as you are faced with the grim realities your notions quickly dissolve and FEAR raises its ugly head.

If you decide it is what you really want to be doing, take it on on your own terms; lead easy stuff, second, boulder etc etc. You shouldn't feel the need to be pushing yourself the whole time.

[groovy_nut]

Yeah you're probably all right - I just need to get on with it. On a good day I'm quite happy onsighting E1, but on a bad day I find myself struggling to even want to get off the floor.
Don't get me wrong, I do love climbing. I'm not into the 'romantic' notion of it at all, far from it. I enjoy the movement, the joy of climbing a beautiful line and also the feeling you get when you finally reach the top despite the struggle.

I've been bouldering alot more recently, mainly because I enjoy it but partly because there's so much less hassle (no racking up or faffing with ropes etc), plus I can just go out on my own (and believe me I would far rather travel the 2 1/2 hours to the Peak than 2 hours to SS!) Maybe I should just stick to that for a while, forget about route climbing until I'm no longer 'psychologically troubled'.

Or maybe I should just 'man up'.

[neil h]

sounds like you should just ditch the whole idea of climbing, sell your rack and buy a big bouldering mat


Bouldering is the source,

If you live in london, you can get to font just as quick as going up to the peak


nuf said

[moose]

I've always found these threads hard to fathom; climbing is the part of my life that I rely upon to relieve mental stress.  A good session on rock - be it feverishly working a project or onsighting trad routes - just makes all the petty aggravations of the working week seem, well, petty.  I admit that it's a not a relationship without complications: crap weather, injury and loss of form often have me wondering why I bother.  But, that's just all part of the game, a bad day sure beats working for a living and there's often the promise of better to come.  Even a lack-lustre session down the wall can be viewed as training for eventual success, it may not be the most efficiently won gain but, relative to sitting around or going shopping, it'll do.  

I think the root problem of these "motivational" threads I see here (and especially on ukc, along with "How do I use a chalk bag?") is artificially high expectations.  People seem to think climbing is potentially a panacea for all their problems.  That taking it up will make them into a different person: a confident, calculating, action hero with 6-pack abs, a thousand-yard stare, and pleasant body odour.  That any deviation from happiness and psychological stability is in some way an unexpected failure that everyone else is immune from - a weakness that must be eradicated forthwith or your BMC card will be revoked by a capering Grimer.  

Sorry to break this to people but climbing is generally none of those things.  Treat it as a distraction from life's hideousness.  If an aspect of climbing feels as though it's disappointing, unworthy or merely below par, just deal with it or accept the consequences.  Neither option is impossible and your choice shouldn't really affect your enjoyment if you are climbing for realistic reasons i.e. for something to do that minimises time spent worrying about bills or trudging round Ikea.  Go climbing if you want, don't go climbing if you find it a joyless and confusing experience, without the prospect even of deferred gratification.  There's probably little to be gained by acting against your own instincts - forsaking the odd day of it will not close the path to nirvana or future spiritual fulfilment.

[Fiend]

Yeah you're probably all right - I just need to get on with it. On a good day I'm quite happy onsighting E1, but on a bad day I find myself struggling to even want to get off the floor.
Don't get me wrong, I do love climbing. I'm not into the 'romantic' notion of it at all, far from it. I enjoy the movement, the joy of climbing a beautiful line and also the feeling you get when you finally reach the top despite the struggle.

<sanctomonious zen mode> When you enjoy it because of the struggle, then you will start to progress. When you enjoy the struggle itself, then you will be truly progressing. </szm>



P.S. Moose surely climbing is a valid and deeply wonderful activity in it's own right??

[groovy_nut]

A means to escape the stresses of everyday life. I totally agree Moose and usually, this is what I get from climbing - it's just that sometimes I find myself worrying and getting more stressed because of it. I really should just stop worrying about it.
 
An Neil, we're off to Font again mid Sept. Really looking forward to it - I absolutely love the forest.

[groovy_nut]

<sanctomonious zen mode> When you enjoy it because of the struggle, then you will start to progress. When you enjoy the struggle itself, then you will be truly progressing. </szm>

That made me laugh - but I can see your point

[neil h]

A means to escape the stresses of everyday life. I totally agree Moose and usually, this is what I get from climbing - it's just that sometimes I find myself worrying and getting more stressed because of it. I really should just stop worrying about it.
 
An Neil, we're off to Font again mid Sept. Really looking forward to it - I absolutely love the forest.

come visit me i will give you some motivation i will show some of the best the forest has to offer

[Jaspersharpe]

Now you're just milking it again Neil you bastard. 

[groovy_nut]

Neil, if you're Mr Maisonbleau, I will be staying in one of your Gites so if you really mean it, would love to be shown around

[slackline]

Neil, if you're Mr Maisonbleau, I will be staying in one of your Gites so if you really mean it, would love to be shown around

Your in luck, he is one and the same.

[Paz]

Yes, more `_nut's.  Which others could we have:

hazel_nut...    Gary's fine missus.
brazil_nut...    Any climber with a bikini wax
fruitand_nut...  The Cadbury's Bunny.

I'd have gone for :

wall_nut, or has that been taken?

I'm finding that while I really want to climb whilst I'm sat here at work or at home, when I actually get to the crag I keep coming up with excuses not to rack up.

...

when I do get the opportunity I seem to waste it sometimes

Just remember that when you're next at the crag then, and resolve to do better.  And rack up the night before, so you get more done.

fear of falling ... terrified of falling.

Put in a belay's worth of gear, shout `Weee' and jump off into the cool free air.

I live in the London area

Move.  Or if living there is so important then they do courses for people like you.  If you need reading material when in the smog then screw Rock Warrior's, get some picture books of climbing photos, and calendars must be cheap now, just cut the dates off. 

more positive climbing partners

...

need a kick up the behind but until I find someone who is willing and able to do that

Yeah, we'd all like a perfect climbing partner.  Luckily I've found one:

[slackline]

Yeah, we'd all like a perfect climbing partner.  Luckily I've found one:

Thats just cheese 

[shark]

>Right my problem is that I really want to climb. I do, honestly I really do. I also want to improve as I really enjoy pushing myself, but herein lies the problem - I like to push myself but have been finding it increasingly hard to do so. I'm finding that while I really want to climb whilst I'm sat here at work or at home, when I actually get to the crag I keep coming up with excuses not to rack up.



Some people are more excited and psyched about climbing on the drive to the crag than they are when they get there. I put this down as a disconnection between the 'idea' of climbing and to be compelled to climb as a gut response to the rock when you get there. Everyone has ups and downs in motivation. For some its quite extreme being riduculously psyched for a short period of time and totally uninterested between these manic bouts of enthusiasm. When my enthusiasm wanes for one type of climbing I try another type, so variety can be a good re-motivator. Goals are another - I always have goals in my climbing which are usually specific routes which I find inspirational and challenging. Other people have grade based goals. Mix it up, take time off, whatever - but motivating yourself to be motivated sounds errr wrong   

[moose]

Some people are more excited and psyched about climbing on the drive to the crag than they are when they get there.

That's what I completely fail to understand.  I often need a kick up the arse to set off climbing - sometimes it feels like so much hard work compared to drinking tea and watching telly.  But, once at the crag, I am always happy to be there and bemused that I ever considered not going.  It seems very strange that some people feel like martyrs for doing  what most posters here would jump at the chance to do.  It's like when I was at university and posh types would ask for sponsorship to climb Kilimanjiro or go on the Inca trail - as though it was some great hardship they were enduring purely in the name of charity.

Does it really matter whether that jump from HVS to E1 feels unexpectedly hard?  Or whether you will ever put away that project? Hell, it's been over a year on Underhand for me and counting but still I trudge up the hill to Almscliff!  The fact that the poster gives a shit indicates they once purely enjoyed participating in this great game of ours.  Try recapture that feeling: consolidate your grade by mopping up those old classics you missed out, try some new projects, visit new crags.... get the mojo back.  Then and only then can you feel sorry for yourself.

[groovy_nut]

I just want to enjoy it all again I guess, all these mental struggles were never what climbing was about for me. I don't understand it either.
Moose is right, I need to get my mojo back.

Mileage, mileage and more mileage. Yes.

[Fiend]

There is a difference between "just climbing" and "pushing oneself"....one doesn't have to do the latter if one doesn't want to...

[Sankey]

People seem to think climbing is potentially a panacea for all their problems.  That taking it up will make them into a different person: a confident, calculating, action hero with 6-pack abs, a thousand-yard stare, and pleasant body odour.  

It has done most of that for you though in my eyes (apart from the BO)  

Good words of wisdom though, if it starts to feel that hard, probably best to sack it.  If you really don't fancy owt, just take a walk, enjoy the outdoors and wait for the mojo to return.  Personally I find that deliberately passing up a few chances to get out can work, as it stockpiles your motivation, particularly if you hear tales of perfect days out from your mates in the meantime.  Wait for the feeling of "right, sod this I must get out at all costs" at which point you normally have a good day, with plenty of motivation.  

[Paz]

I just want to enjoy it all again I guess,

Just chill out then.  

all these mental struggles were never what climbing was about for me.

What was it about then?  When you start out as a beginner you make rapid advancement through the grades very quickly, by having to do a minimum of work, on your head and your climbing.  After that it's all hard graft.

If you take the mental stuff out of climbing, then all you're left with as a maximum is the safe stuff - bouldering sport, trad on bomber gear and DWS S0s (and even these aren't free from any form of mental struggle) and it would be a much blander more mainstream sport.

If you don't want a mental struggle then you're stuck climbing within yourself and dropping your grade.  I've made this sound bad, but it is very good for getting in...

Mileage, mileage and more mileage. Yes.

I think that's the way to get better.  You could also go bouldering, to font as you've suggested.  At the end of the day it's not just an intellectual activity, it's physical.  If you want to be a really good trad climber I think you have to be a really good climber, and be able to trust the fact that you are one under pressure.  I think you have to take climbing movement for granted so you can concentrate on with all the other stuff (faff).  

Now you can take climbing for granted in two ways: you can neglect it, and for example spend all your time and energy worrying about other shit.  Or you can master it.  

And I think the best way to do that is to get lots of mileage on all types of rock, indoors if needs be, just make sure you're doing reasonably hard moves (for you, on routes) still and that you get to the bloody top or the tick.