[Nibile]

so, almost one month has passed and still my wrist is not healed completely. i took one week off then climbed, then one week off then climbed then one week off then some training and some climbing.
the facts: pulling on a sloper, with my wrist slightly bent, i got myself a stress fracture. a micro fracture to one bone that's just in line with my middle finger. from some googleing i think it's the capitate bone.
i can bend the wrist down completely, but not up and backwards and not much on the sides.
i can pull on it hard if it's straight, but it's painful when i pull if bent.

advice: i want to climb on it, i think it could heal faster under some pressure. should i? i'm icing it after each session. what kind of supplements could i take (calcium?) and should i?
thanks.

[Nibile]

ok, ok, i'll rest.

[SA Chris]

Thought you might get a useful response from some more knowledgeable folk.

Anyhow;

Here's my 5 p worth, as a complete non-medical type. Are you certain if diagnosis? Have you got an X ray and a professional to confirm the diagnosis? If so, giving a fracture (regardless of how micro) a week to recover seems insufficient to me. I think immobilising / pressure / support would be better than ice and supplements.

Usual disclaimers apply.

[Nibile]

i didn't have x rays but i've been told many of these micro fractures don't show on x rays. i should get some other exam that's very pricey. i had the diagnosis by a surgeon friend of mine, and also the fact that pain lessens during prolonged effort is a very clear symptom.
anyway i'll try and be a good boy. think long term.

[Paul B]

I can't see it being too much of a hassle nibs... When I broke my hand earlier on in the year they put it in a cast for four weeks which after changing hospitals and therefore appointments ended up being 3.5 weeks. After that they were more than happy for me to climb, my hand was manipulated in every possible way finishing with a two handed squeeze test to which he said "yes, well I wouldn't go near any jams if that hurt..."...I was told that I could do little damage to it but I would feel pain, which I did.
Of course I don't have any b/g knowledge in these kind of things....so probably ignore the above.

[rodma]

I fractured my scafoid (sp) a few years back but thought that I had just badly strained my wrist. My physio diagnosed it as badly swolen due to lack of mobility and excess strain (which sounded feasible enough) and reckoned that it wasn't broken, so I paid them lots of money to massage it over the following weeks.

It was only when I saw a different physio a year ago (about a finger this time) and he saw the calcification on the muscle between my thumb and scafoid, that he told me that it must have been broken.

It's all ok now but I can't hold slopers that dig directly into the offending bone (eg Monty Python at Kyloe)

As with yours, mine felt ok after a decent warm up, but it would really hurt the following day.

I've no good advice I'm afraid, as I tried every trick in the book. It just took a really long time for the pain to go away I didn't take any real time off climbing though, but I did massively reduce the level of my training.

[webbo]

isn't this what big malc had a few years back.there was an article in one of the mags about he got over it.the bad news is, nibs if i remember right is that he sacked of climbing and got a job.
however the good news is that when he'd recovered he did monks life at kyloe.

[GCW]

Clinical diagnosis of a capitate fracture isn't 100%, but if you've had symptoms a while it is a possibility.  It may also be a carpal ligament tear.
I guess you're talking about an MR Scan, which be a reasonable next step (on the NHS, where it's free).  They can cost the best part of £1000 here, depending where you go, so I expect the price will be similar for you?
If this is a capitate injury, you could climb on it from around 6 weeks post injury.  However, expect it to be painful for months.  It should be a similar story with a ligamentous injury, but again it depends what it is.
I'm sorry to be vague, but without a definitive diagnosis it's hard to be 100% accurate.
Rest it, then gradual reintroduction of activity +/- physio.

Good luck beast.

[Nibile]

i could have an MR scan here (almost) for free on NHS but it will take probably months. byt that time i hope to be in switz sipping beer in my van while ticking away 8a's from the guideboook.
haem...
it quickly gets better after just a couple of days from max pain, so i'm confident. I'm not sure about the carpal ligament. when it really hurts, it is painful just to push on the bone: with my wrist bent down the bone sticks out a bit more than left one i think because when i was a boy i badly fractured it and it healed a bit out of position, and moreover i also broke on bone in my same hand on the other side of the wrist. a bit of a mess i reckon.

anyway thanks for the inputs.

[Vitamin K]

Just to add my bit - broke a bone in my wrist in November last year (Triquertal), got it diagnosed pretty quickly, slapped in plaster for 4 weeks or so. Now go on my board with no problems whatsoever. I started running instead and lost a load of weight - result!

For what its worth, short term withdrawal from climbing is better than a long-term fuck-up and it won't really affect you strength wise, you think it will, but it won't. You'll come back stronger.

[GCW]

You'll come back stronger.

 
Nibs?  Surely that ain't possible!! Glad to hear you're getting going again Mr. K (off topic, but have you seen the new topo for Brownstones?)

[Falling Down]

For what its worth, short term withdrawal from climbing is better than a long-term fuck-up and it won't really affect you strength wise, you think it will, but it won't. You'll come back stronger.

Amen to that... it's really hard to think those thoughts in the middle of a injury that could get better or worse. Give it a rest Nibs... go surfing, running and stuff otherwise you could get really f*cked up.

[Vitamin K]

You'll come back stronger.

 
Nibs?  Surely that ain't possible!! Glad to hear you're getting going again Mr. K (off topic, but have you seen the new topo for Brownstones?)

No, not seen the topo - drop me a PM. I think I may be getting going again - even got a trip to Longridge sorted...in between all the cricket.

[Nibile]

ok, yesterday i did a small session to test things. it went really well, not only because i felt good but also because the wrist went fine. still uncomfortable pulling when bent, but good on edges and on slopers without slapping. today it's ok, same as yesterday or maybe even better.
most of all i felt releaved that i'm not plummeting in my power so this gave me that bit of calm that i was looking for to take it a bit easy.
did my pb on deadhangs!!! come on.
also, i manages to find again some very good antiinflammatory cream: it reduces the swelling and drains excess liquids. the fact that it's for veterinary use doesn't bother me at all.
"a man called horse" heh.

[GCW]

So you must be about 6 weeks post injury now, Nibs.  Any update?

[Nibile]

hey!!!
i've had a couple of easy weeks now, and it's not too bad. if i remember well from my previous fractures, when they took off my casts, evertything was painful and stiff for weeks. so, given that i've never fully rested, it's like having a cast taken off now, and starting from that.
i still have to get the full range of motion, especially bending upwards, but the average is fine. i can pull on it, even if it's too early for or one armers.
briefly, i'm confident, but can't wait to get some climbing. next saturday i'll go and check things out.
in the meanwhile, i've started doing weights:
in this week i'll go from 3 sets of 15 reps, to 4 sets of 10.
next week i'll go for 4 sets of 6.
it's a nice schedule, obviously courtesy of The Guru and i'm very very curious.

...and thanks for asking!!!

[GCW]

Cool, all the best for the recovery.

[Paul B]

in this week i'll go from 3 sets of 15 reps, to 4 sets of 10.
next week i'll go for 4 sets of 6.
it's a nice schedule, obviously courtesy of The Guru and i'm very very curious.

I'm curious too Nibs, why do the reps and sets change every week? 

[Nibile]

the guru said so. i asked for a power oriented routine, trying not to bulk up.
basically, the first week is to prepare my muscles to the bigger weights, getting from 15 reps to 10 with increased weight.
then i will settle on 6 sets of 5 reps. what is very interesting is my fourth week: i will still do 6x5, but with bigger weight than before and doing one rep every 15 secs.
then he said we will start something more specific.
oh, and i only do: lat machine, vertical row, pec machine, triceps with cables, very little biceps and just extrarotations for my shoulders with theraband, 4 sets of 25, pausing 2 secs at max outward position.

feedback?

[Paul B]

pec dec's are shite plus some American bodybuilder had his arm torn off by a badly maintained one, I shit you not! Bench Press or Dumbell Press (flat or 15' incline, its easier not to get out of sync on incline as you can see what's going on and are less likely to pummel yourself in the face with a dumbbell on the last rep)

Lat Pull Down imo isn't as good as wide grip weighted pull ups but thats a personal thing (mainly due to being light and the fact that if I put enough weight on the stack i just end up doing pull ups on a non fixed bar)

What about seated row or one armed row? (Very climbing specific)
Military/Shoulder/Arnold Press? (Climbers are all weak as anything at this which can't be a good thing)

I've always thought that a rep range between 8 and 12 is very non specific but it seems to make sense if the idea is that you can start out light ish and get used to everything.

I've never heard of the week 4 style of training it seems unusual but I can't really comment.

Enjoy the DOMS 

[Nibile]

thanks paul, DOMS are the rule now!!!
anyway, i do seated rows, i just didn't know the exact name of the machines. i've also always done hundreds of military presses, dumb bell raises and every other excercise for shoulders, but the guru said to to just do the stuff for the rotators cuff. i also had an inflammation at the long side of one bicep the last year that tweaked my shoulder alot, maybe that's why i almost skip the biceps as well.
and yes, pec machine are shi**, plus a very punterish excercise, but the gym isn't a friendly place so i prefer to train on my own and with that i can go up to my limit, while to bench press at my my limit i should hask for some help or surveillance!!!
anyway, to be honest i do it all because it makes me feel good and i hope to put up some general power, but it's so boring.
plus: no girls.

[guru]

nibile's plan is obviously fit for nibile, thinking about nibile's training period, nibile's future training season and goals, nibile's needs, nibile's injury and pain (he is recovering..), and the 40 degrees temperature in the gym. the plan is based on simple easy and non routine exercises just to strengthen up the big upper body muscles hoping he could restart the training on the wall at 100% in a month. I think it's a good plan. week 4? will be a surprise!

[Nibile]

so another small update.
i managed to climb two days in a row (it was ages, i think last time was in font in early march...), without serious pain with the wrist. it's mostly stiff and a bit sore today, but the range of motion seems a bit increased. i also pulled on it both days so i'm quite happy. it's obviously light years far from serious pulling, mostly because i'm scared and over cautious, don't want to slap, dyno, and do strange torques.
anyway i did two 7a+'s one flashed and another one in three or four tries.

one thing is clear: i underestimated what was a very serious injury but i think the worst has passed.

[Nibile]

ok, i've spent the last weekend in the dolomites, and i think the worst part of the injury is really over. on the first day, blessed with good weather i and andrea did a very nice seven pitches long trad route, and then, after an enormous piece of apple strudel, we did some bouldering at the falzarego boulders. second day just a couple of hours at passo sella boulders straight to the main course.
i am very happy, i did a few problems very quickly and was greatly rewarded. i will give my body some proper rest this week, then will start again the weights program at the start of august.
still not complete range of motion though, but if i crush like that i don't fuc***** care.
 

[GCW]

Glad to hear it, er, bestia da forza.

(I hope I didn't just insult your mother )

I think you are sensible taking some rest though, but good news!!