[uptown]

Hopefully Greg can help me on this - I did crucifix kiss t'other day but couldn't see the sequence for the extension. The Lakesbloc topo doesn't shed any light on it, so what numbers??? Q 

[GCW]

In here somewhere:

[SamD]

Start as for BOBN, move to the big pinch, then cross through to the small crimp as an intermediate and again to the jug on sanctified. This should allow you to access the break as for the beginning of crucifix kiss. Continue along to the finish, Good luck.

[andy_e]

Baz did BOBN yesterday, then got ridiculously fuckin' close to Turbulence, ignoring the huge jug in front of his face on the finishing moves and instead using a shite sidepull which caused him to drop it...

When are you keen for a return voyage uptown?

[Greg C]

Baz did BOBN yesterday, then got ridiculously fuckin' close to Turbulence, ignoring the huge jug in front of his face on the finishing moves and instead using a shite sidepull which caused him to drop it...

When are you keen for a return voyage uptown?

That's interesting, so am I to take it from that it was you lot who covered WOR in ridiculous tick marks - the worst of which was a collection of 20cm long lines under the slopers on Danny's Lip, I mean why? The holds are in front of your face? In fact the entire of Troll buttress was covered in lines/marks, pretty much every hold! Not to mention the numerous fag-buts and cellophane wrappings floating about the crag. 

[BenF]

In fact the entire of Troll buttress was covered in lines/marks, pretty much every hold! Not to mention the numerous fag-buts and cellophane wrappings floating about the crag. 

That's shit.  Can people not at least show some concern for the delicate access situation at this and potentially other crags?  Let alone the fact that leaving places in that kind of state shows scant concern for the environment that we choose to spend our time in, surely people would prefer to climb in an environment free of other people's shit so don't leave your own (if you don't care about climbing in other people's detritus, climb at the Breck).  The Woodwell crags are normally kept pretty clear of litter and big tick marks, so this really isn't nice to hear. 

It also still amazes me that people who smoke don't seem to class fag butts as litter.

[slackline]

It also still amazes me that some people who smoke don't seem to class fag butts as litter.

Personally I now sport a very rare brand of chalk that is tobacco scented due to all the fag-ends that get zipped away in the side-pocket of my chalk bag.  The other slightly more pleasant option is to carry a small film-roll tub for all the fag-butts, but I personally often loose these which defeats the object.

[BenF]

It also still amazes me that some people who smoke don't seem to class fag butts as litter.

Indeed.  My oversight there and I didn't mean to tar all smokers with the same brush.  Apologies, but those that do leave their butts around, do really annoy me.

[Jaspersharpe]

http://www.buttsandgum.com/cigarettelitter/pocketashtray.shtml

Hey slackers. Would these be of any use?

[Houdini]

These might be better

[slackline]

http://www.buttsandgum.com/cigarettelitter/pocketashtray.shtml

Hey slackers. Would these be of any use?

I had a free one of those from the Univesrity of Western Australia when I worked out there.  Still managed to loose it whilst out walking    Don't think I'd bother paying for something like that when I can stick it in my chalk bag (or rucksack when I'm out walking) which I'm far less likely to loose.  It helps discourage people from pinching my chalk at the very least 

These might be better

  the fag-butts would stick to the gum making it throughly unpleasant to then chew the gum, but thanks for the suggestion   

Maybe one day I shall consider giving up, but thats unlikely to happen whilst I toke on da reefer.

[uptown]

When are you keen for a return voyage uptown?

When the t**t that's been messing has the sense to clean it up - I hate climbing at 'dirty' crags. Well pointed out Greg - lets out the spoilers!!!

[GCW]

I'm not sure we should be mentioning visits to banned crags on a public forum, though.   

[uptown]

GCW - I agree it's a tricky one, yet if shaming people can change their ways then we might not lose further access to our limited resources. I thought that access was lost through somewhat blinkered actions in the first instance - we're hardly going to re-negotiate it if we (as a community) carry on the spoiling!
My degree dissertation was on access pressures and issues from climbing in the Peak. We've lost quite a few good resources there since I wrote it, yet it's very hard to control. I think Gregs comments are necessary - I hope he selflessly tidied up after the aforementioned morons to return the crag to its nature and that they will have read this and wisened up...

[GCW]

Yeah, it's tricky.  Obviously swathes of chalk there gives the game away a bit, not exactly hidden away as it is.  Clearly all chalk should have been cleaned carefully, take a toothbrush and water if necessary.

On the other hand, we are very careful about cragx, even to the stage of auto changing it to crag X.  Whereas with WOR some people openly talk about having gone there.  I for one keep away, like I did with Longridge when it was banned.  My fear is that clear infringement of bans can set a precedent for people to go (and leave the place in a tip).  This can then sway land-owners decisions in other access- sensitive issues.

Greg- I totally agree with what you say.  I am just cautious about blatantly commenting on breaking access agreements.

Tricky.

[Anyone know who it was for definite, so we can educate their asses?]

[Greg C]

Look, whilst I agree we should try to avoid direct references, anyone who really wants to find out if people climb there doesn't have to be Sherlock Holmes. As far as I can tell it's a case of we keep a low profile and keep the crag, walls and foliage in check and those upon high look the other way.

As such it is very important that the area is kept as clean as possible, and yes I did brush off the tick marks and remove the litter, as I always do when I visit, in the same way I have to rebuild the fu**ing drystone wall (on the approach) about two or three times a year, which people seem unable to avoid knocking blocks out of!

If you are mentally inept please stay away.

[SamD]

In relation to blaming Andi for the mess at the crag, I know for a fact that he did not even climb on troll buttress on the visit in question, instead heading straight to cave buttress. Andi is one of the most fastidious people i have climbed with when it comes to removing litter and tick marks, and I feel that it is not appropriate to jump to conclusions and bandy about accusations with no proof. Whoever did leave the mess is out of order in the extreme.

[GCW]

If you are mentally inept please stay away.

That's what I was trying to say but less subtly.  Nice one.

[andyheb]

Went to Tom's last Thursday to try beauty of being numb after managing crucifix kiss the weekend before. Noticed that the right hand crimp hold had snapped off! The hold had seemed loose at the weekend but it seems to have snapped of in a bit of a peculiar way. There was no sign of the hold on the ground to rescue. Can anyone shed any light on this and has anyone done it since the hold has snapped? It is definitely still doable but I don't know if it would get the same grade? possibly easier

[BenF]

Sorry for being a bit slow, do you mean the right hand crimp in the steepness of Art of Self Destruction/Crucifix Kiss?  Presumably you feel it would make AOSD a little easier too then?

[Greg C]

In relation to blaming Andi for the mess at the crag, I know for a fact that he did not even climb on troll buttress on the visit in question, instead heading straight to cave buttress. Andi is one of the most fastidious people i have climbed with when it comes to removing litter and tick marks, and I feel that it is not appropriate to jump to conclusions and bandy about accusations with no proof. Whoever did leave the mess is out of order in the extreme.

I didn't intend to accuse Andy, I asked him "am I to take it was you?", i.e. a question, apologies if it read as an accusation. I realize I'm not the crag police, but as I spend much of my time documenting these crags and helping to keep them as tidy as is possible, I think I'm allowed the odd outburst when it comes to keeping them in check, I fully stand by all my above posts.

I can't believe I got 'puntered' for giving a toss about my local crags. 

[lizzy]

You didn't get puntered for caring about your local crag, I'm sure a lot of people on here have cleaned up someone else's mess at a crag in the past and I can understand how frustrated you feel (honestly!). I just think that the accusatory tone you took with Andy was a wee bit harsh, and if you were just asking him if the mess was his you could have worded it in a more polite manner. I know you're just cross about the state of the crag though and quite rightly!

[BenF]

Ok, so Greg was rather direct in his original statement, but I don't think he was too accusatory to be honest.  After all, Andi only had to say that no it wasn't his party that left it like that.  Fuck it, let's not get too worked up about a side issue.  The main issue is reminding people not to be twats in the countryside.  Woodwell is far more popular for walkers/tourists than it is for us boulderers so we need to be ultra vigilant in not spoiling the place.  And yeah I think Greg has a good right to remind people (in his own direct manner) of this given the effort he puts in to documenting the area.

[andyheb]

Sorry for being a bit slow, do you mean the right hand crimp in the steepness of Art of Self Destruction/Crucifix Kiss?  Presumably you feel it would make AOSD a little easier too then?

No my post was crap and unclear. I was trying to talk about the crimp/ pinch thing on beauty of being numb. The 7b at the left hand end of tom's that gaskins does on stick it. This is the problem with the hold that has snapped!

[GCW]

Andy- The triangular pinch thing?  The one that always rattles but appears solidly loose?

Greg- your motives are fair and true, and you are applauded for them.  Your tone was not.  As we've discussed, we are all on the same side.