[SA Chris]

I need to upgrade my forks to something like that at some point, but will probably just end up upgrading entire bike, and demote current bike to permanent "approach bike" status for using in mountain for longer approaches.

[fatdoc]

god... approach bike??

hardcore!

[SA Chris]

Aye, used twice this year already, godsend on both.

Aarverikie Wall - Binnien Shuas - hr uphill riding on approach (jeeptrack), return trip 15 mins no pedalling

Grey Slab - Coire Sputan Dearg - hr on the flat before an hour plus walk - same on the way back. Killer with fully rack.

Did Squareface and Mitre Ridge a couple of years ago - long evil approach carrying climbing kit plus tents, food and sleeping bags.

Also used it for Talisman but dumped it and started walking when I crossed what felt like the hundredth drainage ditch. 

[fatdoc]

now that's just awesome

[SA Chris]

If you are going to tick classic rock, and the less accessible mtn routes, that's what you have to do. Annoyingly have to go into Garbh Choire again (longest approach) as we did the wrong route on Mitre Ridge. Do it in a day next time.

[Norton Sharley]

Fatdoc, I'm off to South Wales and my mate down there is a bit of a MTB freak. He's got one of these so I'm going to give it a go and he's also got some kind of Pace (think its hard-tail) so I'll then be able to make my mind up.

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2008bikes/five-se.php

If you are thinking of buying an Orange I would suggest you ring them up first and find out what old stock they have, there are some serious bargains to be had, especially since the new ones are a bit overpriced imho.

Bubbs is dead right about the hardtails though - big fork, big front tyre, semi slick rear tyre = stacks of fun.  And you learn to ride lines, not just over things! 

[fatkid2000]

I'm back from my little trip to Wales. During which time I rode orange five as in the link above, which was great fun and some kind of pace hard tail. I have to say I enjoyed riding both - and if I was rich would love both. I liked the Pace for it being light and quick and the Orange was huge fun with the 140mm of travel. I know Fatdoc will tell me to go Full Sus, but I'm tempted to get the Pace and learn to ride it properly before going Full Sus.

The pace was the 305. Got to agree the Orange bikes look pricey - but I liked the ride, I spent about 10 hours on the five, whereas I've only ridden the Marin Wolf  for an hour or two.

[fatdoc]

the 305 is awesome.

one of the best hardtails there is.

it's the one charlie got for himself... he loves it.

i'm considering one  for my 40th.... this year's build is highly rated but not what i'd go for... it too light. the concept of shorter stem and full width bars is essential IMO. it would be my winter bike.

i'd have the lighter DT swiss wheels, with 2.3 tyres (pref maxis highrollers, folding bead), the DT 150mm fork doesnt wind down, next years might.... so i'd be considering either a talas 36 (if the frame will still be warrentied for 160mm) or perhaps a mazz 55. there is also something else coming out that is 150mm, through axle and light - 18bikes assure me... the fork is the hardest choice.


groupset: not easy.... carbon race face?, or just sod it and get XT everything? If you go SRam X-9 then you'll be considering avid brakes? there are a twat to bleed.. but they feel great....


I'm unsure on the build.. one way of doing it is sram / shim for all the parts you cannt get UK made. I'd defo get a rear Hope maxle hub BTW.... I'm warming to this idea I have to say..


just remember if i go for this to give to myself as a big *40* pressie i'd be looking at about £2.3k..... for a hardtail....... even the basic rolling chassis is £1.5k. As with the USA handmade frame concept what you dont get is a definate value for money here - it's a brand / UK maunfacturer / ethos / ownership thing.. which is about £1k of the price.


you really sure you wanna do this for your 1st MTB??

[fatkid2000]

My mate down in Wales though couldn't decide which way I should go. Orange Full Susp or Pace 305.

He said some people believe you should learn to ride on a hard-tail properly, then get a Full-Susp rig. Others feel thats alot of shit and its just down to practice and talent and it doesn't matter what you start out on. I really enjoyed riding both, but the Pace felt more like a road bike in terms of weight etc so maybe that is why I liked it. The price thing isn't an issue - I think fatdoc and I agree on this (well up to a point).

I'm still undecided - but like all bikes - it appears as soon as you drift from the more mainstream brands the price kicks up. 

You 40 soon?

[Bubba]

Learning on a hardtail will certainly be good for your skills but I wouldn't say it was an essential rite of passage. It will teach you to take accurate lines, be "light" on the bike and how to use your body to absorb what the terrain throws at you.

A full susser can cover up a lot of crap technique and decisions by just absorbing your mistakes but you'll probably still learn the same skills eventually anyway.

If you want a cheaper but less "exotic" alternative hardtail, then I cannot sing the praises of the Santa Cruz Chameleon highly enough - it's probably the best bike i've ever had and as it's name hints it can be built up for just about any purpose. Probably not best if you're just after an XC steed but you never know, maybe you'll be addicted to dirt jumping in six months time

[Bubba]

i'd be looking at about £2.3k..... for a hardtail.......

Not like you to be extravagant Jon

I think if i was going for a money no object hardtail then I'd get a Banshee (Mythic) Morphine in Freeborn's "Pro Build" spec at a hefty £2339.99 - ouch!

this isn't the above build but you get the idea - indestructible yummyness:




 

[fatdoc]

Learning on a hardtail will certainly be good for your skills but I wouldn't say it was an essential rite of passage. It will teach you to take accurate lines, be "light" on the bike and how to use your body to absorb what the terrain throws at you.

A full susser can cover up a lot of crap technique and decisions by just absorbing your mistakes but you'll probably still learn the same skills eventually anyway.

If you want a cheaper but less "exotic" alternative hardtail, then I cannot sing the praises of the Santa Cruz Chameleon highly enough - it's probably the best bike i've ever had and as it's name hints it can be built up for just about any purpose. Probably not best if you're just after an XC steed but you never know, maybe you'll be addicted to dirt jumping in six months time

wise words...

and i think you'll end up with a full susser in 1 year if you buy the hardtail.

[fatdoc]

i'd be looking at about £2.3k..... for a hardtail.......

Not like you to be extravagant Jon

I think if i was going for a money no object hardtail then I'd get a Banshee (Mythic) Morphine in Freeborn's "Pro Build" spec at a hefty £2339.99 - ouch!

this isn't the above build but you get the idea - indestructible yummyness:

wow!


I just got out of bed, and the old back injuries are reminding me why all my MTBing has been done with a spring on the back for years, not sure about this hardtail lark!

The orange sub zero has also caught my eye   



 

[fatkid2000]

I've not spoken to Stans yet but apparently there are supply issues with Marin at the moment - they have sold out nationally. So that may make my mind up - get the Pace 305 this year and full susp next year - more bikes to clutter the house up with. 

Locally orange only seem to be available at James's - and I would never buy a road bike there, so don't see why I should change for MTB. I believe I can get a Pace at 18 bikes in Hope - would that be right.

[fatdoc]

Pace either from Hope or some shop near Stoke (ask charlie..)... watch that build!

the 140mm Marin range has indeed near sold out...

30mins on the phone to evans etc... will get you one. also  there are adverts in singletrack galore.

choose the bike, then get one... supply issues are really not an issue with the wunderful tint'erweb and a phone.

give me the cash and I could have a marin couriered to your place of work by noon monday.... 

[fatkid2000]

I'm looking at this Pace build. I'm being recommended not to go over 140mm travel on the fork - 18 bikes have never gone over this. Which groupset - Shimano XT or Sram X-9? The build is pretty reasonable.

If I go with the rolling chassis's that Pace do - it'll give me 130mm front travel - and will come in under £2K. What do you guys reckon.

[fatkid2000]

http://www.pace-racing.co.uk/rolling-chassis.asp?catID=1&subcat=459

[fatdoc]

I'm looking at this Pace build. I'm being recommended not to go over 140mm travel on the fork - 18 bikes have never gone over this. Which groupset - Shimano XT or Sram X-9? The build is pretty reasonable.

If I go with the rolling chassis's that Pace do - it'll give me 130mm front travel - and will come in under £2K. What do you guys reckon.

that it will be like 1p under 2K!!

the rolling chassis is designed to be value for money, so it is.

I'd look at the last few years common builds, get a short stem & wide bars. Also, what's the difference in weight from a 130mm revelation and a 140mm u turn air Pike? I'd get rear maxle as well, so unless i'm mistaken you'll need a Hope pro 2 maxle hub...

Sram or the bigS.....

I'm a sram lover, though the bigS shifters and mechs on my marin seem very good..

[fatkid2000]

At the moment I'm looking at a DT EX1750 hubs, rims & spokes.

They have recommended 140mm Magura Thor fork. They've built bikes up on this spec.

The 305 I rode in Wales was fitted with Shimano and it ran fine.

More bling stuff to sneak in the house 

[fatdoc]

does that fork wind down? is it a through axle (mandatory).... get the rear maxle. it's worth it.

[fatkid2000]

Info on the Magura fork.

http://www.shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php?plid=m14b13s410p439&tbv=MAGURA_**_PREORDER_**_Thor_140mm_

[fatdoc]

nice, very nice. god, that's light!

now get a maxle on the rear...

[tlr]

I don't know what size 305 you need FK, but theres a brand new second hand one (if you see what I mean) here. http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=5&i=677043&t=677043

Saving more money to spend on other shiny bits, and carbon.

Tim

[fatkid2000]

Here's the 130mm travel version of it.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/forks-suspension/product/laurin-fcr-13355

[fatdoc]

*slavers*