[Houdini]

That's smaller than Dawes, by some margin.

By the margin of half a CM!

[r-man]

I stand corrected. I heard he was 5'4. Even so...

[Johnny Brown]

He's not that small, I'd say 5'5".

The only times I've seen Jerry climb he seemed enormous, are you sure Ben is taller? Jerry is the only person I've ever seen who can miss out the first move on WSS.

[Houdini]

No I'm 5' 5+1/2" Dawes is 2 or 3" smaller.

[Pantontino]

The only times I've seen Jerry climb he seemed enormous, are you sure Ben is taller? Jerry is the only person I've ever seen who can miss out the first move on WSS.

Jerry only seemed enormous because you were overwhelmed by his world class sport climbing achievements and career long love of limestone. Limestone climbers always walk taller than their physical height.

[cofe]

crimping arthur conan crab claw harris being the perfect example. you'd think he was massive unless viewing him from a distance like bette midler.

[slackline]

That's the problem. 95% is too big a range. People at the extremes are not of normal height. How many 5'2 men do you know? That's smaller than Dawes, by some margin. It would be on the small side for a racehorse jockey.

I had subtly hinted with double quotes around "normal", but probably should have been more explicit.

The 95% CI is somewhat arbitrary, you can take whatever % interval you want, but in biological/medical sciences thats the most common.  In part it dates back to R.A. Fisher's (later revised with Yates) original statistical tables that were based on an error rate of 1 in 20 for deriving p-values, which isn't too bad for a false-positive rate, but in this situation means that 1 in 20 people will be outside of that range.

As for the extremes, well define what you mean by extreme?  It is after all a continuous distribution, so its a gradual tailing off in the frequency of people of a given height.  There will be far more men of 5'6" than of 5'2" and more of 5'2" than of 4'8", and more of 4'8" than of 4'4" ad nauseum.  In climbing equipment, 3 standard deviations from the mean is considered extreme (hence the 3-sigma rating you see on equipment).  Given the mean height stated above, what would you consider extreme, anything more than 1 standard deviation from the mean, 1.5  sd's from the mean, 1.96 (which is the 95% CI), 2sd's?

I've just attempted to put some SCIENCE behind the vague guess' at what the "normal" height is (see various guess' at I'm this height, so and so is taller/shorter than me) and opted for the most commonly used confidence intervals in biomedical sciences.  The mean on its own is useless, you need to know how much variance (or the standard deviation which is the square-root of the variance) there is within a sample to know how the heights will be distributed (knowing the kurtosis and skewness will also be useful in assessing that it follows a Guassian/Normal distribution, but its a fairly safe assumption that height is).

Not trying to be awkward but it is SCIENCE (well kind of its statistics, but if sociology can be considered a science then statistics damn well can be too) and statisticians are kind of fickle by nature

(A great book on statistics is How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff)

[nik at work]

No I'm 5' 5+1/2" Dawes is 2 or 3" smaller.

Thats wierd cos I'm 5ft6ish and he seems pretty much the same height as me. Maybe slightly shorter but only half an inch or so.
Maybe I was stooping.
Or perhaps he has elevator heels.
We could have been stood on a slope.
Perhaps a passing black hole was distorting the light rays between the top of his head and my eyes making him appear taller.

Height is a funny thing....

Slightly more on topic, just to add to your workload Bonjoy, is it worth adding a specific height/reach to certain problems, where if you are below said height/reach you will essentially be climbing a different problem? Or maybe we could just accept that grade are just a guesstimate....

[Jim]

can we also have a symbol denoting problems only repeated by shortarses too (are there any?).

Being nigh on 6'5" i find myself having regular conversations about the relative advantages given to tall boulderers.  While there are problem types that are clearly easier for the short (low traverses or any problem that forces feet close to the hands for example), the fact is that tall boulderers are necessarily carrying more mass on every problem.

How about a symbol for only repeated by the slight of build?

At 197cm i'm roughly 10% taller than the average.  Weight unfortunately doesn't increase linearly with height, so with a similar body composition i might way 15% more than my average height buddy.  So take your favourite non-reachy problem testpiece, add a 10kg weight belt to your 65kg body and see how the grade feels now!

Though the extra body weight is a disadvantage that tall climbers in every problem, it is most evident on steep problems on small holds.    So how about a symbol for problems that don't offer any reach advantage to offset miniscule crimps?

What a load of crap. I'm 88kg's or 14 stone and only 5'10.5 I don't winge about my weight (its the spotters that do that) holding me back on problems, sometimes my lack of height or my massive schlong does.

Although I'm currently on a diet....

Ben and Jerry both seem to have enormous wing spans, especially Jerry

[Johnny Brown]

Jerry only seemed enormous because you were overwhelmed by his world class sport climbing achievements and career long love of overblown shit routes

No, he seemed enormous cos he pulled on to WSS with the crimp and second sidepull. No hovver boots neither.

No I'm 5' 5+1/2" Dawes is 2 or 3" smaller.

No he's not, he's at least 5'4". When did you last see him?

[Houdini]

When did you last see him?

When he was 12, this must explain the difference.

JB, you are wrong. 

PS.   He lied on Throbbers door measure.

[monkey boy]

Went to wharncliffe today for my first day out since dislocating my shoulder. Nice little circuit there, got hailed off after a few hours but was fun none the less.

Anyway Andy B (-2" ape index) managed 2nd ascent of kim span and i sneaked in for the 3rd. Really not that lanky at all, we both thought 7a is appropriate. Very good problem as well! Lots of fun.

[abarro81]

2nd sidepull?? with a non-french start?! holy shit, i'm 6'2 and pretty damn sure i can't do that. not without a proper stack of pads... you're about to blow my 'tall people are always weak' excuses..

[Zods Beard]

Basically Jerry's a god, so I don't think he can be included in any talk on such piffling subjects as height. No disrespect meant to the list by the way.

[abarro81]

maybe he did a one armer on the crimp to get straight to the second sidepull 

[r-man]

Went to wharncliffe today for my first day out since dislocating my shoulder. Nice little circuit there, got hailed off after a few hours but was fun none the less.

Anyway Andy B (-2" ape index) managed 2nd ascent of kim span and i sneaked in for the 3rd. Really not that lanky at all, we both thought 7a is appropriate. Very good problem as well! Lots of fun.

Great to hear you're back on the rock again!

Anyone do Sneaky Little Fingers, by the way?

[Jaspersharpe]

I can only imagine JB was indeed halucinating as Jerry is no giant. I have out-lanked him bouldering at The Tor and, as I say, I am of normal (6ft) stature. He was probably talking so much as he did the first move on WSS that you didn't notice him do it.

[Bonjoy]

Good to hear your back on the horse monkeyboy. I had a feeling Kim Span might be ok. Not sure why I didn't do it at the time, must have been weak. What else did you get on?

[Johnny Brown]

He was probably talking so much as he did the first move on WSS that you didn't notice him do it.

No, no I don't make mistakes about this shit. Casually reached crimp with bent arm, then did the same with the second sidepull, then pulled on. By second I mean level with the crimp not the next one or the top one. If he's not tall then the man has telescopic arms.

[dave]

so you mean what everyong else describes as the first sidepull then. This isn't out of the ordinary, i can do this. not that would ever do it though, i hate that crimp.

[Jaspersharpe]

Sort of like this then.........

http://www.moonclimbing.com/VideoDetail.aspx?ID=8

[monkey boy]

Went to wharncliffe today for my first day out since dislocating my shoulder. Nice little circuit there, got hailed off after a few hours but was fun none the less.

Anyway Andy B (-2" ape index) managed 2nd ascent of kim span and i sneaked in for the 3rd. Really not that lanky at all, we both thought 7a is appropriate. Very good problem as well! Lots of fun.

Great to hear you're back on the rock again!

Anyone do Sneaky Little Fingers, by the way?

Is that your little wall next to the amazing arete? Andy did it. The lock to the slot was a little too deep for my shoulder. I tickled the slot but didnt quite have extra push. Good problem though. As is pixie arete, one of the best 4's in the peak i reckon.

Good to hear your back on the horse monkeyboy. I had a feeling Kim Span might be ok. Not sure why I didn't do it at the time, must have been weak. What else did you get on?

Did that outlook roof, dragons den, crouching tiger, the easy variants of jorge and should of done dragon slayer (fell at the very top) and then the heavens opened so couldnt get back on, tis a cracking climb though. Andy did the dyno version of jorge (looked ace), r-man new little problem and blunted without that block.

Good little circuit.

Note to anyone who goes though, until the end of april you cannot walk through the field due to problems that the farmer is having with lambs being left by their mothers. So you have to park elsewhere or walk through the woods alon the perimeter. Makes the walk in about 25 minutes.

[cowboyhat]

Sort of like this then.........

http://www.moonclimbing.com/VideoDetail.aspx?ID=8

Not like that; Ben does the first move using the undercut with his left hand.

Like Dave, I think I could maybe pull-on using the first sidepull and crimp, not easily though. I'm pretty sure Jerry has a bigger span than me.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah sorry that's why I said "sort of" as in he reaches the sidepull off the ground. Nearest I could find to show that it's not a particularly huge reach.

[Johnny Brown]

This isn't out of the ordinary, i can do this.

Nice one Dave, that's that sorted - a fuckin massive guy can do it too.