[shark]

It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it,

Would that be the Simon Lee E5 new boots and panties ?

No it's called Matt the Hoople. NB&P is on House of Common's Buttress

Whoops - my mistake. I make them occasionally. I knew that Ian Parsons re-cleaned NB&P before repeating it and second-guessed why Neil thought it was a first ascent by Ian.

NB&P is on a buttress on its own between LTQ and HoC.

[Eddies]

I went to Slayley Brook last w/end, thro the wild strawberries to Marble wall and did a few really nice routes.

Has anyone got the beta on the crux of 'Brandy Snaps' ?
I couldnt for the life of me work out how to get from the first large pocket to the second thro the blankness!

[JC]

I went to Slayley Brook last w/end, thro the wild strawberries to Marble wall and did a few really nice routes.

Has anyone got the beta on the crux of 'Brandy Snaps' ?
I couldnt for the life of me work out how to get from the first large pocket to the second thro the blankness!

Did BS ages ago & can't remember the exact moves i'm afraid, but just crimp your way up the edges!      Have you done Too Monstrosity yet on the Monster walls?  One of the best 7a's i've done and very long at 45m!

[Eddies]

I got up the final head wall OK, it was the mid section i struggled with, utter blankness between two large pockets, think you must have to go out right but didnt want to use the large crack of the adjacent route!

Only went on Marble wall, the rest of the quarry looked gash!

[belperpete]

Only went on Marble wall, the rest of the quarry looked gash!

Slayley is a great Winter venue, as it gets loads of sun and is rarely wet. Climbing in shirtsleeves in Feb is not uncommon.
Don't know what you mean by 'gash'? It's a big quarry and, unfortunately has a lot of dodgy rock.
JC is right about 'Too Monsterosity' - it's a must do 7a!
A big route in many ways and, believe me, the rock quality is excellent. 18 clips, if I remember rightly.
a 70 metre rope will nearly get you down in one go, but there is a mid-way stance/lower-off anyway.
If you want any more info on stuff down Matlock way, just post on here.
Regards

[Fiend]

Had a play on The Boltest this evening, I'm still struggling to grasp how hard it is. The only comparable thing I've been on is Sardine, I'd say the Boltest was not 1-2 grades harder than Sardine but several grades harder. It was also hugely reach dependent and I'm not sure how Bonners did it at 7c.

I couldn't even see how it was possible do the first crux span (can't span between the holds crimped), the second crux lunge to the break (can't reach the break of the decent footholds), the fifth crux rockover to get the appalling two finger non-hold (can't stretch far enough locked on right hand), nor the sixth crux go again to the decent crystally bit (can't reach this with my feet still on the footholds). I also couldn't do third crux rockover in the break, the fourth crux lunge to the edge out right, and seventh crux slap to the upper break, but at least I could see how they might be possible, although the latter is the limit of my height. I could do the eighth crux rockover to finish, but that's quite easy.

Utterly really.

[Bonjoy]

It is a solid 7c and reach helps, I was quite spanned on some moves.

[dpb]

I could not reach the first span sitting on my left foot as seems the obvious way. I found that if stood straighter on it using a poor left hand hold i could then just reach the good left hand hold and move across for the dyno to the break. Im 5ft7.

[Fiend]

It is a solid 7c and reach helps, I was quite spanned on some moves.

Hmmm. I can imagine, since you too are a gentlemen of compact stature. I wonder if the antennae / exoskeleton help.

All academic really 

[Andy F]

Fiend, I'd reccomend trying The Squealer(Lorry Park, 7c)as it's not reachy at all, just technical. And I'm 5'7 ish. Haven't tried the Boltest yet, but it's on the hit list.

[Fiend]

Fiend, I'd reccomend trying The Squealer(Lorry Park, 7c)as it's not reachy at all, just technical.

Tried it last night. A much, much more reasonable proposition, even in super-sweaty conditions. I did the last 3 cruxes (slapping to the first jug, moving left from that up the groove, and going from the juggy break up to the next good holds) within a few goes. I couldn't do the first crux from the crimps to the left hand crimp below the jug, but I worked out a likely method. And the rest is easy.

Compared to the Boltest, the Squealer is:

Less steep.
Good shake-out jugs.
Two near hands off rests.
Good holds to clip off.
Very reassuringly bolted.
Only one really hard crux compared to several.

Sooooooooo much easier, by a matter of a few grades, it feels.

I might try to rotpunkt this, I quite like it really, it feels manageable and I like the good bolting.

[Bonjoy]

I thought The Boltest was pretty generously bolted, almost overbolted in places. I guess the clips are quite strenuous.
Did you notice if the loose jugs had been re-glued on the Squealer?

[Fiend]

The Boltest bolting seemed okay apart from a runout bit near the top crux reaching the break. The Squealer bolting is notably good i.e. easy clips, always a bolt right next to the hard moves, and, unusually for some of these routes, no runouts on easy ground. The bolt protecting the step up to the juggy break and the bolt protecting standing on the big ledge near the top are both more than I expect from Peak sport.

I'm not sure what loose jugs you mean. There was an obvious place on the mid-height rest ledge where a jug had come off to leave a flat dusty ledge - the jug is visible in the BMC sport guide, I think the route is easier without it as the rest ledge is bigger. Also visible in the BMC guide are some intermediates between the juggy break and the gaston/sidepull, these are also missing, which would then make the route harder with that cruxy bit. There was no sign of anything else missing.

[Bonjoy]

When I did it (2 yrs ago?) it had some loose jugs on a ledge/rest which looked to have been glued in the past, but whatever had been used was of very poor quality and had degraded into crumbly muck. Good to hear that there demise hasn't affected the route badly.

[JC]

2 yrs ago Jon?? It was last July wasn't it? 

The loose Jugs on the squealer i pulled off a few months ago because they were moving, it doesn't change anything. That's why i put in lots of bolts Fiend, to try and encourage people to get on the routes. 

I reckon that the climbing at Long Tor is generally old skool hard, and i can see why its not as popular as lorry park. Most of the routes require a massive reach, unless your really strong.

P.s Bonjoy i repeated your 7c depravity today. Thought it was quite tough crossing through Ruby, but it was very humid as well!

[Bonjoy]

Last year, crivens!
Nice work on Depravity. You must have ticked the face now!

[Fiend]

That's why i put in lots of bolts Fiend, to try and encourage people to get on the routes. 

It works Have a wad.

I guess Good Time Emporium isn't one of yours as I had a play this evening and wasn't a fan of the bolting on that (4th bolt hard to clip from ledge, and then runout to 5th bolt and committing to finish, ideally needs 4th lower, one for when you've stood on the ramp, and 5th higher).

[belperpete]

Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!
There are ways of coping with this, if you really get into 'sport'.
So, be prepared to run it out a bit, now and again on some retro/rebolted routes.
As long as your risk is calculated and backed up with a good belayer, you'll be OK.
 

[IanP]

Tried it last night. A much, much more reasonable proposition, even in super-sweaty conditions. I did the last 3 cruxes (slapping to the first jug, moving left from that up the groove, and going from the juggy break up to the next good holds) within a few goes. I couldn't do the first crux from the crimps to the left hand crimp below the jug, but I worked out a likely method.

If I remember rightly my beta for the 'left hand crimp' section is left hand on good positive hold, right hand up to gaston, go again with right to get your 'left hand crimp' with the right than up with left to a smaller crimp followed by slight lunge to jug.

And the rest is easy.

Worth ensuring that you've worked the moves back left at the top because it can feel quite awkward and tiring after you've done everything else (though maybe you could traverse further right to get a better rest before)

[Andy F]

Fiend, Ian's beta is spot-on. Go with your right, then again, left to tiny crimp and throw for the bucket. Do keep plenty is reserve for the top, it is pumpy up there.

[Fiend]

Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!

I disagree on two counts:
1. The original bolting is not necessarily done with the best intentions of a long-lasting sport route. Factors such as cost of bolts and fashion for spaced bolting at the time may have caused a poor bolting job. When these factors are no longer an issue and the crag is a proper sport crag, proper sport bolting seems more suitable.
2. The concept of seems entirely spurious in a context where there is major retrobolting going on. If the classic cracklines at the crag are getting retrobolted without any respect for their original nature (irrespective of whether this is right or wrong), then why should rebolting sport routes be any different.

So, be prepared to run it out a bit,

I do, on trad, all the time, with pleasure. When I choose to climb sport it's for a different experience, the standard sport climbing experience.

I've noticed with my experience of poorly bolted routes, that almost invariably all they ever needed was one more bolt and the spacings moved a bit, usually in a very obvious way. It's not like they needed, nor am I desiring, grid bolting or over bolting. Just something that feels like conventional modern sport climbing rather than 80s-style dodgy Peak hybrid sport.

[Fiend]

If I remember rightly my beta for the 'left hand crimp' section is left hand on good positive hold, right hand up to gaston, go again with right to get your 'left hand crimp' with the right than up with left to a smaller crimp followed by slight lunge to jug.

Hmmm. I did think of that, the problem being that that "smaller" crimp I wouldn't even use as a foothold. If I'm going to have to use a hold that bad I might as well use the lower right crimp by the bolt and go again to the LH crimp.

The way I worked was to get the gaston and go to the LH crimp with my left, I didn't do it that evening but it felt likely. I'll play around more of course.

Worth ensuring that you've worked the moves back left at the top because it can feel quite awkward and tiring after you've done everything else (though maybe you could traverse further right to get a better rest before)

Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.

[IanP]

Hmmm. I did think of that, the problem being that that "smaller" crimp I wouldn't even use as a foothold. If I'm going to have to use a hold that bad I might as well use the lower right crimp by the bolt and go again to the LH crimp.

The way I worked was to get the gaston and go to the LH crimp with my left, I didn't do it that evening but it felt likely. I'll play around more of course.

Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.

Maybe missed a bit of detail - once you get the good crimp with your right via the gaston / go again you make some foot moves to end up rocking quite high on a good left foothold, this then makes the "smaller" crimp feel usable for the pop to the jug (or lunge for the shorter  ).  Certainly felt easier that trying to go from rh gaston to the lh crimp which I couldn't do.

Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.

Sounds about right though, can't remember really, the very top did feel very slightly artificial and though don't think it mattered too much in the overall difficulty of the route it did feel pumpy on the rp.

[Fiend]

Maybe missed a bit of detail - once you get the good crimp with your right via the gaston / go again you make some foot moves to end up rocking quite high on a good left foothold, this then makes the "smaller" crimp feel usable for the pop to the jug (or lunge for the shorter  ).  Certainly felt easier that trying to go from rh gaston to the lh crimp which I couldn't do.

Ah yes that makes sense, I know the foothold you mean. Will feed all this into the beta-cruncher.

[Bonjoy]

Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!

I disagree on two counts:
1. The original bolting is not necessarily done with the best intentions of a long-lasting sport route. Factors such as cost of bolts and fashion for spaced bolting at the time may have caused a poor bolting job. When these factors are no longer an issue and the crag is a proper sport crag, proper sport bolting seems more suitable.
2. The concept of seems entirely spurious in a context where there is major retrobolting going on. If the classic cracklines at the crag are getting retrobolted without any respect for their original nature (irrespective of whether this is right or wrong), then why should rebolting sport routes be any different.

So, be prepared to run it out a bit,

I do, on trad, all the time, with pleasure. When I choose to climb sport it's for a different experience, the standard sport climbing experience.

I've noticed with my experience of poorly bolted routes, that almost invariably all they ever needed was one more bolt and the spacings moved a bit, usually in a very obvious way. It's not like they needed, nor am I desiring, grid bolting or over bolting. Just something that feels like conventional modern sport climbing rather than 80s-style dodgy Peak hybrid sport.

Some of that I agree with but I’d question other bits.
First off I think sport routes should be bolted safely, in such a way that you won’t hit the ground or ledges if you blow a clip. But within that rule I don’t see why there should be a standard spacing any more than I think equippers should pander to your desire for a “standard sport climbing experience”. To an extent bolts should get further apart as you get higher.
Trad climbers taking a break from the bold might find it annoying, but some sport climbers enjoy the odd runout too. That said, in my experience sport climbers are in fact often more comfortable with runouts between bolts as they’re more accustomed to climbing to the point of falling off on lead, taking frequent lobs in a way that tradders (sensibly) tend not to do as often. A trad climber carefully selecting his/her routes could easily stick to stuff where they never really run it out on difficult ground (I'm not meaning you by that). The trad=bold, sport=unbold idea is a gross over simplification.
Bolt positioning, certainly on the harder routes, is as much or more to do with where it’s easiest to clip from rather than the avoidance of slightly scary but safe runouts. A good bolter will firstly ensure the spacing is safe and then bolt the route in a way which adds the least extra physical difficulty, only thirdly does the vague notion of standard spacing come in. Squeezing in an extra bolt at one point can mean messing up the positioning further up, such that you are forced to clip in strenuous positions.
Bolt positioning must also take into account rope drag avoidance, rope/clips/bolts obscuring holds and rock quality. It’s a process you can spend ages agonising over on a new route.
And don’t forget, long continental routes tend to have huge trouser filling runouts to match. In my experience the bolting on full sport routes in the UK is roughly the same or a bit closer together (probably due to the fiddly nature of the climbing) than Euro equivalents. Making then even closer together will only lead to being gripped on holiday.