[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah, the works are good at setting problems with novel moves. Can't say I've done a single problme indoors that is really foot-friction limited though.

How would you know? You don't climb indoors remember.

[Bonjoy]

Bottom line is: power impresses chicks, while technique makes you look a bit effeminate.

What they really like is trumpets and bookendsmarks?

Possible misquote there Bonjoy?

Aaaah, that must be where I was going wrong!

[r-man]

Training means doing specific activities to achieve specific goals, surely. Climbing a lot is fine, but if you really want to improve on specific techniques, there must be more effective ways of working on them. Serpico suggested practicing easier versions of the move you want to do, which is probably good enough for most things. But it is strange that this is about as far as technique training has got. All the principles of isolating muscles and movements, and building tendon strength, power and endurance could easily be applied to legs, footwork, balance etc.

I don't buy into this wishy washy technique is an artform stuff. Some people may have more of a natural aptitude, but that's the same with everything. It doesn't mean other people can't achieve similar levels of proficiency. Balance, for instance, isn't just a knack. As well as the neurological stuff, there are lots of muscles at work. Train the muscles and you'll get better. Like all those bloody yoga people who stand there serenely on one leg whilst I hop backwards and forwards just because I couldn't resist having a go.

Niks at Work's slab board was a step towards technique specific training. I'm sure people have also built mantel devices, crack panels and so on in the past. All these things mean you can isolate one type of movement, then gradually make it harder.

I built a slab panel once, but only used it for two weeks. Unfortunately although I'm sure all this training would work, I enjoy climbing too much, so like most people I'll just carry on with strengths and weaknesses similar to most people, I won't become a technical master and there won't be any problems I find stupidly easily compared to everyone else. Oh well.

Now what I really want to train is having fun. It should be a given that you have fun while climbing, but on any day at the crag there will be a significant amount of people not having fun. Annoying though they are, the American Psyche! Psyche! brigade have got the right idea. You have to be keen. If you turn up feeling pessimistic about your chances of achieving, or doubtful you will enjoy the venue, you are already losing. I have concluded that the fun muscle is located on top of the big toe. Mine bulges. Of course, it may be a bunion.

[galpinos]

Annoying though they are, the American Psyche! Psyche! brigade have got the right idea. You have to be keen. If you turn up feeling pessimistic about your chances of achieving, or doubtful you will enjoy the venue, you are already losing.

Totally agree. I'm out in Canada at the mo and the atmosphere at the wall is great. Everyone seems to be willing you up everything. Took a while to get used to but I"m totally "down" with all the "Send it dude" and fist touching.

[Jim]

YES completely, it is a massive weak side of my climbing and one that i can't fathom how to sort out. Getting out more would help but it currently isn't really an option.

I think it is the only way.
IMHO there is no way to train technique specifically apart from climbing as many different problems and types of problem as you can.

[Serpico]

Now what I really want to train is having fun. It should be a given that you have fun while climbing, but on any day at the crag there will be a significant amount of people not having fun. Annoying though they are, the American Psyche! Psyche! brigade have got the right idea. You have to be keen. If you turn up feeling pessimistic about your chances of achieving, or doubtful you will enjoy the venue, you are already losing. I have concluded that the fun muscle is located on top of the big toe. Mine bulges. Of course, it may be a bunion.

You are coming dangerously close to that "The best climber is the one having the most fun" cliché with that paragraph. I warn you now an instant punter point awaits anybody repeating that bollocks here.

[r-man]

I think you misread. The best climber is the one with the biggest bunion.

[Monolith]

Now what I really want to train is having fun. It should be a given that you have fun while climbing, but on any day at the crag there will be a significant amount of people not having fun. Annoying though they are, the American Psyche! Psyche! brigade have got the right idea. You have to be keen. If you turn up feeling pessimistic about your chances of achieving, or doubtful you will enjoy the venue, you are already losing. I have concluded that the fun muscle is located on top of the big toe. Mine bulges. Of course, it may be a bunion.

You are coming dangerously close to that "The best climber is the one having the most fun" cliché with that paragraph. I warn you now an instant punter point awaits anybody repeating that bollocks here.

Agreed. Too much optomism has a stench of Noel Edmonds about it.

[Fiend]

Un-scientific, but I've found, say, some of the more dainty Works problems to have an aspect of training technique. Unfortunately that always seems to involve falling off tiny polished smears for me. And technique makes you weak anyway  ???

i'd disagree, they're usually just 'trick' problems.

That's cos you're too strong and not technical enough

(Okay, I am both weak and un-technical, hurrah!)

I think some of them are tricks yes (i.e. the ones that have something specific to unlock), but some of them are quite good at encouraging you to feel your body position and use the holds in the "right" way, rather than just bearing down.

There needs to be more with holds dangling off pieces of string, that's for sure 

[Paul B]

Un-scientific, but I've found, say, some of the more dainty Works problems to have an aspect of training technique. Unfortunately that always seems to involve falling off tiny polished smears for me. And technique makes you weak anyway  ???

i'd disagree, they're usually just 'trick' problems.

That's cos you're too strong and not technical enough

(Okay, I am both weak and un-technical, hurrah!)

I think some of them are tricks yes (i.e. the ones that have something specific to unlock), but some of them are quite good at encouraging you to feel your body position and use the holds in the "right" way, rather than just bearing down.

There needs to be more with holds dangling off pieces of string, that's for sure 

I don't agree because if something IS technical i will get properly shot down by it.

[Nigel]

The first step to learning technique (i.e. movement rather than "techniques" e.g. kneebars, bicycle feet etc.) is probably learning to control your centre of gravity. Standard wisdom is to think about your points of contact, usually hands and feet. Your CofG is roughly in your pelvis. Johnny Brown has a handle on this, he's always thrusting at the rock like a rutting terrier. I give you the "suck your navel up" method of matching the Blind Fig sloper.

The best place I think for coming to terms with this is the School, or boards in general. I reckon its because you've lost a dimension and can see what's going on more clearly. Last night me and Bonjoy were deconstructing moves at the School into so many component parts that you'd think we were discussing aiding El Cap not doing one hand movement.



 

[Monolith]

Couple that with your legendary article on campusing  and you have the makings of a mythical underground text on the rudiments of hard cranking. A wise man indeed.

[Johnny Brown]

Get in, Ron's arrived. But hmm, what's he on about, which is the lost dimension? Time? Quality?

I can understand overhanging boards allowing you to deconstruct moves. I'm not sure I understand them helping to control your CofG. Well I can, but not in a way that's useful.

The most useful advice I can offer is to worry about the motion between the holds as being the moves, not the start and end positions.

[cofe]

control your CofG.

will you guys stop bringing me into this? i think nige has a point about boards and deconstructing movement. i think the difficult part is transferring this from a 2D articifial environment into the big wide 3D real world out there. man.

[account_inactive]

Manipulation of COG happen in 3D.  This is sometimes more apparent on a steep board as it easier to see the body sagging away from tension.  Studies have been done (biomechanics) to plot this movement, but no conclusions have been attempted.  So many moves and problems have variable solutions and on top of this there are various body types, strength and weaknesses that it becomes a minefield to quantify.

I spent a while in a lab looking at the fatigue effects of a one leg squat.  This took place on a force plate (in the floor) with eight camera angles.  The data was then bust into a super computer and we spent ages looking for deterioration of movement.  It was tres boring to say the least.  It was also very hard despite the fact that the movement was very simply and also made much harder by the fact he knocked out 35 one leg squats

[Fiend]

Paul, I know, I'm joking.

You never know, JB might be strong too.

[Houdini]

Gobsmacked this thread's still breathing.

[Jim]

You never know, JB might be strong too.

He's a lot stronger than he likes people to think

[account_inactive]

Just not on the crimp

[Jim]

I think you'd be very suprised

[Houdini]

nothing to see here, wrong thread

[account_inactive]

The only time I've seen him shut down was on crimps.  In fact at the tor.  So yes I would be suprised as most of the crimps on grit you can open hand

[Jim]

regarde monsieur a font sur le petit gratons

[a dense loner]

So yes I would be suprised as most of the crimps on grit you can open hand

now that's one of the funniest things i've ever read

[Johnny Brown]

les petit grattons avec mon weight on mon pieds monsieur.