[AndiT]

Abarro, I good soft E7 would One Chromosome's Missing, or even better Pair O'Genes, which will be going down in the next guide, so get it while it's hot! OCM allows the tall to ease the crux, but still packs enough IMHO to warrant the grade, I can give you the gear beta if you need it.

[abarro81]

any (non-beta) opinions on cool moon? that's on the list too and heard it might not be death-danger..

[dave]

And about the least technical grit route I've ever done.

He's right - its brilliant.

[andy popp]

I'd say The Salmon is another good candidate, if it still gets the grade. I didn't think OCM was so easy but it was my first at the grade so who knows. Daves right Jasmine is brilliant. JB, I'd be interested if you agree re: widening gap between OS repeats and the hardest routes?   

[andy popp]

Hmm, think I made the comment about no headpointing of E5s. To be clear this should be a (strongly expressed) ideal.

[AndiT]

I don't think we can always assume that on-sight grades will only be one behind hardest grades, like I mentioned earlier it's a bit like practicing above a sponge pit. I personally don't think people will be willing to take the ultimate gamble on some of todays more moern test pieces.

Andy: I'm glad to hear you think OCM is a bit of a benchmark, but it does make for a good potential on-sight being relatively readable and having some half decent gear, still not been back for Old King Cole....soon though.

[andy popp]

I don't think we can always assume that on-sight grades will only be one behind hardest grades, like I mentioned earlier it's a bit like practicing above a sponge pit. I personally don't think people will be willing to take the ultimate gamble on some of todays more moern test pieces.

Andy: I'm glad to hear you think OCM is a bit of a benchmark, but it does make for a good potential on-sight being relatively readable and having some half decent gear, still not been back for Old King Cole....soon though.

Re: the gap,my point exactly,it was only one point in early 80s (and maybe no gap in the 70s) but has widened since. I predict it will continue to widen. Good luck on OKC - I think I had a good day.

[AndiT]

Cheers Andy, I still think it's the hardest route on the crag!

[Sloper]

The whole point is if we don't set rigorous stanards then tings don't improve (in terms of style).

ps someones letting the fireworks in Marlock Bath off early!

[hongkongstuey]

I top roped this route with Hong Kong Stuey many years ago, I certainly wouldn't now.

that's cause you don have me and my 'ethics of a tom cat' approach to drag you down anymore - I knew it'd be the beginning of the end for you and Gus when I left...

[nik at work]

I wouldn't agree with that - too simplistic. What is sensible is that the age of the route and the style of ascents it has received be considered. If its twenty years old and has had a raft of onsights, several by unknowns, then I think headpointing is pretty poor style. Kaluza falls into this bracket nowadays.

I think I agree with this. An attempt should be made to not take glaring backward steps in style on established routes. However the problem is that the several onsights by unknowns are going to be, well, unknown...
Is it time for a new section to the chuffing forum bubba, possible title "My mate what you don't know has done this..."

[andy popp]

Cheers Andy, I still think it's the hardest route on the crag!

But that would make it E...?, wouldn't it?

[Johnny Brown]

JB, I'd be interested if you agree re: widening gap between OS repeats and the hardest routes?   

I think its an undeniable fact. I predict a narrowing though.
Firstly you've got the way headpointing has evolved from practising a few moves to repeated rehearsal of the whole route. Where bold climbing is concerned that is bound to widen the gap - I've heard of several cases, Seb is the best known, where the headpoint wasn't considered until it had been toproped clean five times in a row. This is a long way form Johnny's ethic.
Second, as this has become more and more acceptable onsighting got left behind. in the Hard Grit era people were just chasing grades, big numbers by any means. Any young climber wanting to make a mark had to do the same - hard onsights just weren't reported, leading to a time in the late nineties where really unremarkable headpoints made ote, but more impressive onsights didn't. So onsighting got neglected, and this continues today. Look at JP's onsight vs headpoint record - 2 E10s vs what, 1 E7, a couple of E6s? Its not that he lacks the ability, its just that trying to make a living out of it he has to direct his energies in the most newsworthy way, ditto Dave Mac.
This is fine on mountain rock where lots of projects remain. But on grit we are really running out of rock - a big part of the bouldering boom here has been the chance to actually do new stuff. For grit to remain relevant for the next twenty or fifty years I think we have to reassess our approach. Leaving the last few great lines for a ground up approach would be a great way of giving the next generations something to really aspire to on grit, and keep the rock alive and not become outdated. We puff our chest out about our great clean ethics on grit with no fixed gear, but try to explain to any foreigner that we only climb hard by prepractice and they'll laugh in your face. Its not really accepting the challenge is it?

[Stubbs]

but try to explain to any foreigner that we only climb hard by prepractice and they'll laugh in your face. Its not really accepting the challenge is it?

Surely climbing with prepractice is how hard single pitch routes get done around the rest of the world - it's just that in most places all of the routes where the challenge to be accepted is the threat of broken bones, there'd be a bolt or two to stop that....

[grimer]

Hi all,

as a result of this thread, I thought I'd try to resurrect a record of good style ascents on grit that I made years ago. I've put the old one on here http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2157  and hopefully with some feedback, it could get updated in a few weeks.

So, if anyone knows any corrections or new info, let me know,

G

[Jim]

how do the use of pads and highballing tactics fit in here?
eg; the angels share - ground up - gritstone hero (strong girl) - 2006

[grimer]

Doesn't count 

[Jim]

I like it

[Falling Down]

Hi all,

as a result of this thread, I thought I'd try to resurrect a record of good style ascents on grit that I made years ago. I've put the old one on here http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2157  and hopefully with some feedback, it could get updated in a few weeks.

So, if anyone knows any corrections or new info, let me know,

G

I'm sure our Mr Popp onsighted Jasmine all on his lonesome way back in t'early 90's.. Andy?

[webbo]

Hi all,

as a result of this thread, I thought I'd try to resurrect a record of good style ascents on grit that I made years ago. I've put the old one on here http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2157  and hopefully with some feedback, it could get updated in a few weeks.

So, if anyone knows any corrections or new info, let me know,

G

andy swann has also done bottom line at brimham ground up.

[grimer]

Is bottom line the one that Somebody's Fool etc did about a year ago?

[Somebody's Fool]

No, we did Bellporker's Progress.  Brilliant, but never E7 with mats.  More like highball 7a+.

The Bottom Line is on the cubic block, right of Jokers Wall etc.  Looks literally like an elephant's arse.  More so than the one in Font.

[grimer]

Oh, with the thread in it, I knows it.

Any date for The Bottom Line?

[webbo]

some time in the stoneage as i don't think he's done a route since the birth of his 2nd daughter and she's 12.

[Jim]

Looks literally like an elephant's arse.  More so than the one in Font. wimberry