[clm]

After JB getting on Jims ass and following a C4 prog on "greenwash" its time to own up.  what size are your carbon boots?

I have had in my lifetime...
1.5 return flights to italy,
one return flight to central america,
6 return flights to france,
1 return flight to north spain,
i drive about 13k a year in a 1.9 turbo diesel - in which i give a colleague a lift (before that a 1.4 astra, a 1.6 golf, an 850cc mini  and a 1.2 astra)
i have a draughty, poorly insulated, gas heated terrace
i compost my vegatable waste.
i eat meat.
I shop at asda and dont avoid excessive packaging but recycle haphazardly.

[GCW]

I drive 60 miles each day for work.  Then sit on my arse drinking as much beer as I can every night.
I used to smoke 20 fags a day but I've given up for 6 months.
I got on very well with my mother.

[clm]

i get on well with her too
I gather that you too are one of the few who go out round bolton quarries.  ive not been for a while.  give me a shout if you do.

[GCW]

i get on well with her too

That worries me as she's been dead for a few years.....

I do indeed visit The Quarries.  When I'm not at work or injured 
I've not been to Brownstones for a couple of weeks but hopefully that will be rectified soon.  PM me.  Need a video of you doing Crackhorse for R-man.
[Plaug alert]  Click on the BHAU link below and have a look at some Brownstones Eliminates that you've probably done already [end of plug]

[Duma]

too fucking big.

I don't fly (twice ever)
On the other hand my commute is a 70 mile round trip, alone (1.9tdi ~ 50mpg)
Got much better at eating local and avoiding supermarkets in the last year, though how good I'd be if I wasn't surrounded by good local ethical shops is a moot point.
Pretty hot on the recycle/compost thang - Bristol CC make it fairly painless.
Not a lot else to confess - if it wasn't for the milage (30k/yr) I'd not be too bad.
Nevertheless there is no fucking way in this world I will ever be moving to Swindon.

[dave]

i walk to work so don't do fuck all mileage in car. do all the paper recyclling etc. and don't eat meat as much as i used to.

However i have flown return to canada 4 times (2 east coast, 2 westwide  ), return to thailand once, font twice, and once each for milan, dublin, saltzburg, jersey, spain, majorca, minorca, sardinia, 2 internal flights in thailand. And to rub salt into the wounds i fart a lot.

[Sloper]

Me, I', going straight to hell.  I must have flown to the states 10 - 15 times, france a few and ireland less.

I drive >30k per year.

The wife has a fur coat, we both love fox hunting and I have killed at least 12 hippies this year.

Oh I also recyle and try and avoid supermarkts (too many proles)

some of the aboe is true

[unclesomebody]

Now maybe you can see the other side of the coin.

Carbon Footprint - Ant or Elephant?

[The Sausage]

nice work uncle! for those that didn't read it all, the bit near the bottom about sanitation, clean water, (+ human rights, social justice...) is what is really important. plus, "i never fly, but i'm not moving to swindon"... people do what is convenient and then justify it. rarely do we live by our principles.

[Duma]

nice work uncle! for those that didn't read it all, the bit near the bottom about sanitation, clean water, (+ human rights, social justice...) is what is really important. plus, "i never fly, but i'm not moving to swindon"... people do what is convenient and then justify it. rarely do we live by our principles.

Ouch! I do think about my actions, rather than just doing whats convenient, and I'm not justifying it, CLM asked.
Population control is what is really important.

[Nibile]

hmmm...
ive flown (return) to egypt twice, turkey, portugal, spain 4 times, paris 4 times, uk 5-6 times, usa 3 times, perhaps something more.
i drive a 2.5 diesel transit van and an old car.
i recycle and try to walk as much as i can, and i try to use heathing as less as i can, but my house is very poorly insulated, with lots of heat loss.

[mark]

Now maybe you can see the other side of the coin.

Carbon Footprint - Ant or Elephant?

Check your sources. junkscience.com is run by Stephen Molloy. He used to work on behalf of Philip Morris and other tobacco companies and was involved in lobbying to deny that there were health risks associated with secondary smoking. As that campaign became an embarassment to his funders and they wound it up he started to concentrate on lobbying on behalf of various oil companies to discredit the growing consensus regarding anthropogenic climate change. Credible source? Hmm.

[Duma]

thanks Mark, beat me to it - got distracted on the google trail.

[Duma]

for those who'd like some perspective on the junkscience website linked to above, it's written by Steven Milloy

In January 2006, Paul D. Thacker reported in The New Republic that Milloy, who is presented by Fox News as an independent journalist, was under contract to Philip Morris through the end of 2005.[5] Philip Morris documents showed that Milloy was budgeted hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments while writing for FoxNews.com.[10] In the May/June 2005 issue of Mother Jones, Chris Mooney reported that non-profit organizations operated out of Milloy's home have also received large payments from ExxonMobil during his tenure with Fox News.[29][5]

[Johnny Brown]

Agree with Duma, the size of the footprint is indeed important but its not going to make much difference against the ever-growing number of feet. That's the real problem politicians seem unwilling to face.

[Paz]

Someone (the head of a polar research institute I think) called population size the `cinderella issue' of the Green Lobby too.

I think it's quite interesting, I'm sure I can work it (the optimal number) out.  Or work out why I can't work it out.

I have no car, so I'm lording it on the carbon moral high ground.

[bigphil]

tram to the station, train to work, walk to the office. try to buy local and starting to grow my own, recycle paper, glass and plastic bottles. Turn lights off and most appliances when not in use.  Return flights to Suriname, Florida, Iceland, Spain, Paris, Ireland, Cyprus and Denmark.  Have an old BMW.

Could be better.  Could be worse.

[jfw]

not going to make much difference against the ever-growing number of feet. That's the real problem politicians seem unwilling to face.

this is true for developing countries

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article2201090.ece

conservative religious bias of american aid programmes are preventing contraception drives

 while the lack of education and provision, with particular respect to condoms, are having a "desirous" population effect by ensuring many die from aids, i can't help thinking prevention would be better than "cure"

american agencies are in most cases witholding aid from local healthcare providers if they provide information about abortion as part of their family planning remit.

anyway i digress, back to population size - all the eu countries currently have a birth rate below that needed to keep the population stable - the only way we do that (i.e. if you want some one emptying bins or working in hospital when  you are a pensioner) is by allowing immigration - all well and good if we had freedom of movement of people comparable to the freedom of movement of goods and money- which we don't.

both in this country and abroad - birthate is increasing amongst the poorest. cultural views and female infanticide/sex orientated abortions mean that china and india have a massive ratio of men to women.

in this country the penalties a woman suffers in terms of her earnings, career prospect and pension for having a child - mean that those who have a job increasingly postpone it, more and more frequently until too late - meaning the only women churning out sprogs like there's no tomorrow are those already disenfranchised - the long term unemployed. (ok ok sorry middleclass mums and dads - i'm talking general trends here)

we can no more effect the industrial carbon output of china than we can effect the birth rate in africa but we can take responsibility for our own actions - will not having kids save the planet? should we pose this question alongside those to do with car use and recycling?

i think when it comes to kids - people should have the ability to make choices about it - and that means education about and availability of contraception.

[unclesomebody]

The Great Global Warming Swindle. Thursday. Channel 4. 9pm.

I just think to have an opinion one must know all the information.

[Johnny Brown]

So now you 'know all the information', have you formed an opinion?

Have they convinced you we are not in a situation of human-induced climate change?

What about the twin towers, an inside job?

[unclesomebody]

ha ha... As if JB. I'm open to learn as much as possible about it. My opinion is that doing something is always going to be better than doing nothing. Whether the difference is small or massive is something I would like to find out about. I'm just not going to believe it because it's on the news, because so often you try to find out the sources and find it's based on sommething totally ludicrous like a case study of 8 people.

[r-man]

Need a video of you doing Crackhorse for R-man.

I made no such request. I suspect you are angling for beta... 
_______

All this carbon footprint talk worries me. I cycle everywhere, or car-share (go to the peak whenever someone has a space). And yet I made one business related trip to Toronto, which will probably cancel out all my greenliness for the past year or so. Ach!

And yet there are all these amazing places I want to visit, all over the world. Bishop, Hampi, Hueco, Castle Hill, etc. etc. ...not to mention a million non-climbing related places. Maybe in the future I'll avoid taking the plane to go on holiday and restrict my travels to car trips only. If it's true that planes really are that damaging, at least cutting them out of holiday plans is one way to minimise the harm. Anyone else considered doing this? And is it even worthwhile, or am I being misled?

[GCW]

Nah.  Just thought you'd like a vid of it   
I'm still struggling with Dezertion SD so Horse's Crack is Waaaay down my list

[widdop]

carbon tax, great so we all go of and work our butts of burning even more carbon ,to pay for the next holl ,its not as much the individuals carbon footprint ,its the carbon we burn making money so we can burn carbon.Simple the government just keeps our bank accounts topped up weekly , by not burning carbon ,just print money.

[Duma]

come again? You think if it's made more expensive to burn carbon we'll burn more because flying to whereever on holiday will be more expensive?