[Bonjoy]

But as you once said Andi, I'm not tall enough to climb 7a

Genious!

 I like crowds, more muscle for building patios  

 For me climbing with a bunch of mates is a joy. The banter and encouragement is the biggest thing I miss about bouldering in the summer months.
 Climbing with a bunch of other peoples mates can be less fun, especially if you aren't climbing well or you find any of them annoying. Or it can be great.
 Obviously crowds of wankers would be aweful, but i've only really come accross these in font.
 This doesn't mean I don't enjoy solitude, climbing on my own or as a pair. It's all good.
 Pat you sound like every misserable old fart since time began. You get to a certain age and start viewing your past as some sort of long lost golden age. The truth is that you will still find solitude at a huge number of crags even on a perfect Sunday, you just have to be a bit less lazy about where you go.
 Another factor involved in the perception that bouldering as degenerated into some sort of american cliche is this. Part timers/ the lazy/ indoor monkeys/ fair weather climbers, tend to only go out on the rare days when conditions are great. Obviously they bump into all the other part timers/ the lazy/ indoor monkeys/ fair weather climbers, invariably at Stanage or Cratcliff and then mope around whinging about how it never used to be this crowded in the olden days. Nobody ever considers themselves as part of the problem either, it's always 'look at all these plebs on my crag'.




 7a is dysfunctional in the extreme. There is little agreement on what it means and hence it is pretty useless in the real world. The main schools of thought being 7a as proposed by JB which would be usable grade if people used it, but they don't so it's approaching a lost cause, or the 'if you can do it then it isn't 7a' school of thought, or Andi's 'if it gets 7a in a pre-1990 guidebook you can have it' club. It's a situation that is no more likely to ever resolve itself than the Font versus V grade farce.

 Etjoset - A huge chunk of the LH sidepull has fallen of Zippy's problem since that guide was written. I imagine this affected the grade.

[Stubbs]

Obviously crowds of Peakies would be aweful.....

I must say it was a bit overbearing when half of the peak district descended on Brimham and proceeded to do a circuit in one big group, but as it was probably one of the only acceptable places to climb that day, I understand why it happened. There groups and then there's groups, sure you can have a noisy bunch of three or four, but when a group is 10+ I think it's pretty hard not for it to be obvious and obtrusive, no matter how well behaved the various members.

[erm, sam]

Are you drunk?

[erm, sam]

Am I drunk? Replying to Idol Eyes may posts at the end of the last page, before I noticed a whole other page of informed debate. Ace.

[Idol eyes]

No, just pissed. sat on a rig, nothin to do except bitch. Promissed that i would not get worked up about anything  anymore, lifes good and all is well. Really missing the faith and friction in the dark peak.... got some appointments to keep there and not enough time to be there, still, I am over it!

[Bonjoy]

Stubbs, that was a very large group even by peak standards and it was annoying having to queue to do Acme Wall. I'm not sure why everyone ended up at Brimham all at once, I think it was more coincidence than design. Said group split up into smaller bunches for the rest of the day after that and I think most people had a great day. I was certainly glad of the extra spotters and pads on some of the higher probs. Plus it was a good scene at the pub afterwards

Idol Eyes - I feel for you mate, stuck out on a rig! Being stuck in an office in Sheff is bad enough.

[etjoset]

Etjoset - A huge chunk of the LH sidepull has fallen of Zippy's problem since that guide was written. I imagine this affected the grade.

Indeed it has, though I'm not sure whether it has made it any easier. Anyway, I doubt that the sidepull version would be considered worthy of Brit Tech 7a these days. That said, I initially couldn't do the sidepull version and did the two variants using the pinch in the roof first (though in retrospect the sidepull version is actually a bit easier).

Despite them being eliminates and very silly, I really like the moves on these problems. Andy Harris's foothold elimator photo is my favoutite bit in Ru's guide. Maybe I should get out more!

[Johnny Brown]

Stubbs, that was a very large group even by peak standards and it was annoying having to queue to do Acme Wall. I'm not sure why everyone ended up at Brimham all at once, I think it was more coincidence than design.

Aye, yeah, apologies for that. Most of the group had planned on Slipstones but having been blown off several times (off the rock, by the wind, that is Finbarr) we all ended up at Brimham.
I didn't notice anyone complaing about the pads under bellyporker's though. Handing out E7 ground-ups like sweets they were.

No, just pissed. sat on a rig, nothin to do except bitch.

Just to big you up, we were marvelling at the still unclimbed direct on Charlotte Rampling the other week. First at the quality, second at the outrageous fact that you'd done the move. There's 7b for ya!

[Idol eyes]

Yeah, goin on a three month trip after though, so do not lose the sleep BonToy, me old cocker span yola...
You must understand, the crowds and the noise just promote the shutdown of sensitive areas, such as Eagle Tor. My view is has a degree of myopic cynasim, I have spent 15 years climbing Gritstone alone and it has been a privalige to have it to myself, and as for the UK tech grade, all my routes have been given this system, and all have been regraded without repeats, it just hurts...
But its ok now.

[Idol eyes]

Fuck, thats the one man, this is the big line... the reason why i am surfing at the momment is for the fluid movement needed to launch the move, 3rd generation X. dubbed the Assassin E9 7B...

[Somebody's Fool]

Just to big you up, we were marvelling at the still unclimbed direct on Charlotte Rampling the other week. First at the quality, second at the outrageous fact that you'd done the move. There's 7b for ya!

Toad of Broom Hall?

[Stubbs]

Aye, yeah, apologies for that. Most of the group had planned on Slipstones but having been blown off several times (off the rock, by the wind, that is Finbarr) we all ended up at Brimham.
I didn't notice anyone complaing about the pads under bellyporker's though. Handing out E7 ground-ups like sweets they were.

Blown off hurr hurr.

Yeah I'm pretty sure James (and the other hardcore ground up E7 ascentionists!) was very happy about the amount of pads and the spotters available, I only wish I'd gone to get on it before all the pads and spotters went

[Andy F]

erm, monoblock gets 7a. I'll go now...

[AndiT]

But as you once said Andi, I'm not tall enough to climb 7a

Yup, you're four inches too weak!

 

I like crowds, more muscle for building patios  

 

or Andi's 'if it gets 7a in a pre-1990 guidebook you can have it' club. It's a situation that is no more likely to ever resolve itself than the Font versus V grade farce.
 

My only reason for that is that the OP then has the opportunity to actually tick a 7a before he dies and therefore die happy as opposed to ticking a V# or Fb#, british tech grades are all but lost to the annals of history now, so a historical tick is essential!

[Stubbs]

To swing this topic back on line (after Andy F's fine effort) I've been trying to thing of actual moves in Yorkshire, rather than just boulder problem that migh deserve 7a, as the 7a should denote a single move ne c'est pas? I've been struggling, all I've come up with is:

Gaining the crack on super set
Moving your feet onto the first stand up foothold on Ben's Groove sit down start
Last hard move on Curious Yellow
Gaining the smile hold on Terry
Holding the swing on Zoo York
Crimp to break on Cherry Falls (prob 7b)

Any more for any more?

[Idol eyes]

I think that if you honour WWS as 7A you set presidence for all that follow, such as Blind Date, Burbage has produced the number time and time again, but "locals syndrome" plays the conservative card and they all get downgraded, I must admit, i did blind date and thought it 6c, never done WWS,
but its the Old School, New Wave cross over.
Zaff Ali thinks you must cease at E11, It allows the definition of limitation, and slowly all other routes will find the appropriate grade within the catchment of 1-11.
I would think that if we used the UK tech grade 5A-8A we could regrade all existing GRITSTONE problems and preserve the lost heritage of dark peak knowledge.
peace and love...

[Idol eyes]

ie, WWS-Blind date-7A
    The Joker-7B
    The Ace-7C
    The unclimbed seam out rt of the ace-8A

[Bonjoy]

How can The Ace be 7c if it has the same crux move as The Joker 7b??????

[Pantontino]

The Keel gets Brit 7a in the '98 Yorkshire Gritstone guide. What a great decade the 90s was; these days its so much harder to be a wad.

(Isn't Superset Font 7b nowadays? )

[Johnny Brown]

Well, if you follow my view which you seem to, basically there's going to be a 7a move on every problem over font 7c, stamina plods obviously excepted. You've got a range of difficulty move there, Terry is barely 7a, hard 6c I'd say, whereas Zoo York is getting to the top end, and as you say Cherry Falls is going to be 7b.
Last time I saw the yorkshire list there were hundreds of problems 7c or harder so you've plenty to go at.

I'd say Blockbuster is a good example of bottom end 7a.

[Idol eyes]

just a pathetic attempt at being hypothetical, SonBoy

[GCW]

Woah!!!!!  I go to work for a day and we're up to 3 pages when I get home!!!

Thanks everyone.  A few things to go at.  I suspect a lot of "6c" problems may not be all they seem......

[unclesomebody]

Could I be so brave as to sum this thread up by saying tech 7a isn't actually very hard and most people on this board could probably climb it (according to this thread's definition of what 7a is)...

[GCW]

There seems to be two schools of thought:

1.  Old School
7a is harder than 6c by the amount that 6c is harder than 6b etc.  A logical progression of difficulty.  This means WSS, Blind Date etc are 7a.

2. The School
7a is hard.  It's really hard.  It's really, really hard.  It's so f**king hard  noone can do it unless they are able to climb font 7c+/8a every day in roller skates.  ie You can only claim to have done a 7a move if you have done Superman, Hubble, The Ace or some problems at the School.

I think there's logic in both arguments.  But why can't we have a logically progressive grading system?  OK, WSS is 7a.  So The Ace is 7b?  It seems to me that 6c is getting wider and wider.......

[Idol eyes]

Other comparissons other than Grit.
Old School,    Revelations bottom move, still totally desperate.
                   The Thing,
                   
NewWave,     The Prow, Kyloe