[Jim]

never mind all that bollocks, just booked my flight.

Goal: get fit and healthy in 4 weeks, go to swiss and tear it a new arsehole. get in!

[Rice Boy]

Where do you draw the line, how scary does scary have to be before it becomes a route??? [/quote]

Too true, totally subjective.

Not to be Taken Away took one of my thirteen lives whereas Alliance felt pleasant, though that could have a lot to do with the feather duster my spot was using at the time.

[irish si]

one of my goals for this year was to do Diaphanous sea at hueco.  I spend bloody years getting strong enough, looking at pictures on the net, watching videos (including the moon flashing it), listening to people tell me how much it will suit me, and three fucking days before I go to Hueco and head straight to it, some fucker breaks it and now its impossible. I hate climbing.

[Bonjoy]

In short: if a climb still feels very scary after rope practice, then give it a route grade. If it doesn't, give it a bouldering grade.

Where do you draw the line, how scary does scary have to be before it becomes a route???  I think there is an obvious answer to this and that is If you use a pad, it is a boulder, use as many pads as you like or need too feel comfortable.  If you don't use a pad, for either on sighting, ground upping or headpionting then it is a route.  If you use 1 pad on a route, then why not 2, if 2 why not 3 if 3 why not 30???  Using just 1 pad on a route makes a huge difference and the line needs to be drawn.

I admire and to an large extent agree with your ethical stance, but it has inherant problems in the real world. For example lets zap to a world where this rule is applied and pretend Meshuga had never been climbed. Climber X (yes him again) decides to do the FA with 1 pad and proceeds to grade his new climb font7b+ (or whatever), surely this is twice as mad as the status quo?? It just isn't a boulder problem, regardless of how many bouldering mats are used.
 The more logical extension of your ethic is that routes shouldn't be claimed as such if pads are used. But I don't think it should follow that these (flawed?) ascents be classed as boulder problems, unless the addition of the pads actual renders the climbing ground-upable.
 Again I reckon daggers are the way forward. Daggers for boulder probs which have not yet been climbed ground up and daggers for routes which have not yet been done without pads. The dagger denotes the moot status of the climb, but the most descriptively accurate grade is still being applied. It covers ethics and practicality in a stroke. All in favour say aye.

[Somebody's Fool]

Aye.  I've never believed that an ascent of a route using pads should be invalid or compromised as long as people are honest about using them.  Why would you risk breaking your legs if you don't have to? 
I bet the people who say 'Oh but the first ascensionist didn't use them, therefore you shouldn't' don't foresake their cams when they reach the lip of The Sloth or whichever pre-1970s route they choose of a Sunday afternoon.

[AndiT]

  as long as you're honest. They do make things easier, but also save your ankles and protect the ground from erosion. I think at the very top end of the scale there is a worthy excuse for separating those who use pads and those who don't, but it's hardly the most important part of climbing. Pre-practice comes much higher up the agenda than pad use..

[Blunk]

one of my goals for this year was to do Diaphanous sea at hueco.  I spend bloody years getting strong enough, looking at pictures on the net, watching videos (including the moon flashing it), listening to people tell me how much it will suit me, and three fucking days before I go to Hueco and head straight to it, some fucker breaks it and now its impossible. I hate climbing.

That completely sucks.

[BenF]

one of my goals for this year was to do Diaphanous sea at hueco.  I spend bloody years getting strong enough, looking at pictures on the net, watching videos (including the moon flashing it), listening to people tell me how much it will suit me, and three fucking days before I go to Hueco and head straight to it, some fucker breaks it and now its impossible. I hate climbing.

Yup, that's really shit.  My condolences to you.  Climbing does have an annoying tendency to be both the best and the worst activity in the world.  It's usually fuckin' amazing; bringing much joy, satisfaction and physical pleasure.  Then again, it can be so damn frustrating, particularly when combined with dodgy weather and rock conditions. 

Then again, it's only climbing.

[chappers]

new goals on a rope for 07 after chatting to some boys down the wall.
comedy
raindogs
bring on the spring (that is not a route by the way, just me wanting some dry weather because i am accidently psyched for the wrong think in the wrong season).

[squeek]

new goals on a rope for 07 after chatting to some boys down the wall.
comedy

Jee has got the sequence on this if you wanted someone to show it you.  He'll probably be there a bit this year when it dries up.

[andy_e]

bring on the spring

That'd be a quality route name!

new goals on a rope for 07 after chatting to some boys down the wall.
comedy

Jee has got the sequence on this if you wanted someone to show it you.  He'll probably be there a bit this year when it dries up.

Wouldn't mind having a crack at that...

[chappers]

new goals on a rope for 07 after chatting to some boys down the wall.
comedy

Jee has got the sequence on this if you wanted someone to show it you.  He'll probably be there a bit this year when it dries up.

ill have a chat with the jee-unit then... i was down rochdale with waller, it was mick "the hip" i was chatting with, he treats comedy like a warm up, and rain dogs like a stiff stroll, not bad for an old timer!
cant wait to get out after work in the spring! (ive now written off the winter due to shit conditions)

[Andy F]

Got a nice sequence for Raindogs for you. Alternatively I could just describe every hold in minute detail and let you decide for yourself....

[unclesomebody]

one of my goals for this year was to do Diaphanous sea at hueco.  I spend bloody years getting strong enough, looking at pictures on the net, watching videos (including the moon flashing it), listening to people tell me how much it will suit me, and three fucking days before I go to Hueco and head straight to it, some fucker breaks it and now its impossible. I hate climbing.

You'll be most pleased to know it's been re climbed since the hold broke and it's only added half a grade (now 8B). Definitely not impossible for a sponsored hero of your strength! Please climb hard things and tell those yank kids they know nothing of truly hard moves... Have a good trip mate.