[grimer]

ah, ok BJ. They do look good though.

[Baron]

A route, yes, but fucking harder than any slab boulder problem I've ever tried - Angel's Share, Black Rocks.

[Sloper]

What about the slab at Rivelin? Or the one at the left hand end of Millstone?

[Control freak]

Theres always dual at font

[Houdini]

A route, yes, but fucking harder than any slab boulder problem I've ever tried - Angel's Share, Black Rocks.

I think this is a lovely bit of rock.  And with a mat, a lovely height for a boulder problem.  Perhaps the best starting moves on a problem I've done.  No - I couldn't top out in a oner (and wearing brand new pinks (double-duh) it was never going to happen anyway...) but lovely hippetty-hopperty moves nevertheless: a real grit class act.

[unclesomebody]

A route, yes, but fucking harder than any slab boulder problem I've ever tried - Angel's Share, Black Rocks.

I think this is a lovely bit of rock.  And with a mat, a lovely height for a boulder problem.  Perhaps the best starting moves on a problem I've done.  No - I couldn't top out in a oner (and wearing brand new pinks (double-duh) it was never going to happen anyway...) but lovely hippetty-hopperty moves nevertheless: a real grit class act.

best starting moves? What?!?! A rockover? I think not. That move is my worst nightmare. However, The Angels Share is the best slab I've ever tried, beautiful moves. Infact, one of my favourite pieces of climbing. I do agree that it makes a great 7C+ boulder (apart from that god awful rockover).

[Houdini]

(Shudders in absolute horror emoticon)  How can you not like The Rockover?  Are you mad?   

(ps - well done!)

[Oli]

I had a play at getting into that gutter bit with 'the rockover' the other day. It seemed quite hard although it may just be me being weak... What boulder grade do you reckon that would get?

[Houdini]

Common or Garden English 6c.

[jwi]

Regarding Tokio Muroi's slab Bansousha ("The Accompanist")

The guys I climb with over here don't gossip much and won't give their opinion about problems they haven't done, but a quick google-job turned up this about "The Accompanist": (By the way, it may as well be V14. 5-dan = V14 or V15, but most people are glad to always take the higher grade when presented with a choice, right?.)

http://www.bouldering.net/japan/closeup/5dan/5dan.html have a pic of said problem, says it's the first 5-dan of Japan, and that it was done without a pad, and something weird about the fruits of rebirth, then I couldn't be bothered to read more because my brain started to hurt.

On a more recent note, http://www.pump-climbing.com/yuji_dai.html says (on the post dated 04/11/07) that someone on the staff (who may be called Ryouji Ohnishi, for complicated reasons it is not possible to give a phonetic transcription of a Japanese name written with Chinese characters) at Tokyo's gym pump-climbing has made the first repeat of one of Tokio Muroi's 4-dan, and was apparently really close on "The accompanist". I imagine that the season is over for this year in Ogawayama though.

[r-man]

Cheers for that. All very intriguing.

Certainly looks like a good line.

[jwi]

Cheers for that. All very intriguing.

Certainly looks like a good line.

That pic absolutely doesn't make the problem justice. The boulder is really beautiful, and the problem follows the strongest line.

[miki]

I don´t know if it is the same slab problem:
http://www.freakclimbing.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=128

[jwi]

I don´t know if it is the same slab problem:
http://www.freakclimbing.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=128

No it's not the same problem at all. Yami no emaki is not even a slab by any definition of the word. It's just next to Fuyu no hi, a 4-dan (=8a+–8b) that looks super easy; but looks must be deceiving, because it only got one repetition as far as I know. [edit:] Realised I've missread the date, so correction: Fuyu... had only one rep up until 2004....

I guess Yami no emaki is an eliminate problem, since I can not understand how it goes from the pics, even when I sit with Muroi's topo in my knees)

Anyway, pics from Koyamada-sans quick repeat and brutal downgrading (from 5 dan to 2-3 dan) of Yami no emaki here: http://www.daihold.com/dai/2004.2.html (scroll down to the first pics you see, they are from "Yami no emaki".)

[jwi]

Think the second V15 slab got heavily downgraded by one of the japanese wads.

Yeah, so the 8b+ "slab" that got heavily downgraded by Koyamada is not a slab at all. It's more or less vertical. Se pic's as above.

[Paz]

Good work sir.

8c down to 7c+/8a.  Swiss grades eat your heart out. 

I feel my initial cynicism about this problem was well justified now.  I was chatting to someone from Japan ages ago about it, and my line of tack was that that guy is a complete unknown, and hadn't done anything in font, and how could that be 8c compared to 8a+ hardest slabs in font (ther's no 8b slab in font is there?) that the world's boulderers queue up to wear out their rubber on?  And that's probably 8a+ using poff.  He persuaded me that Dai Koyamada was indeed an uber wad -  this was the first time I'd heard of him, but some how we got him confused with Mr Tokyo nobody.  I can't believe it's come to this - calling 8a slab climbers nobodies. 

[Duma]

irrelevent now but Phillipe le Denmat did an 8B slab to the left of Alta at Isatis - name escapes me, but anyway it was chipped by that nutter that was fired by the climbing shop a couple of years ago and is now impossible (apparently...)

[Stubbs]

Good work sir.

8c down to 7c+/8a.  Swiss grades eat your heart out. 

That's only one of them that's been repeated and downgraded though - the other one is still unrepeated...

[unclesomebody]

irrelevent now but Phillipe le Denmat did an 8B slab to the left of Alta at Isatis - name escapes me, but anyway it was chipped by that nutter that was fired by the climbing shop a couple of years ago and is now impossible (apparently...)

Enigma is a wall I reckon.

[Nigel]

Rumour has it done by Gaskins before the hold broke? Second hand info I'm afraid...

[unclesomebody]

Rumour has it done by Gaskins before the hold broke? Second hand info I'm afraid...

naturally...

[Nigel]

Most of my info is second hand. I heard that you came last in the team qualifiers. Second hand obviously. Off about ten thousand people 

[r-man]

Good work sir.

8c down to 7c+/8a.  Swiss grades eat your heart out. 

That's only one of them that's been repeated and downgraded though - the other one is still unrepeated...

Also, the one that got downgraded ( Yami no emaki ) was

not even a slab by any definition of the word.

And the Bansousha slab is not necessarily 8c -

it may as well be V14. 5-dan = V14 or V15

Come on now, read the thread first, or we'll end up like ukc... 

[jwi]

Obviously I'm not in a position to directly comment on the grade of "The Accompanist", since I haven't done it.

However. Tokio Muroi is not a nobody. To say that is just ignorant, and ignorance is not something to boast about. He has put up other 4-Dan problems that has been repeated and not (AFAIK) downgraded. The one (wall, not slab, 8b+, not 8c) that got downgraded seems to be a very peculiar problem (I went to have a look but I didn't understand how it goes, it seems to be a strange eliminate).

The Accompanist is a super nice line on a prominent boulder in a very popular area, about 3 hours from the world's largest metropolitan area, in a country that doesn't exactly lack breadth and depth in climbing talent. It have received interest by some really good slab climbers and is still unrepeated after many years. Duel on the other hand has been repeated by everyone and his dog.

[addendum:]
Oh and another point to consider. It is my feeling that the grades in Ogawayama are a bit soft, compared to other places in Japan, which is a bit silly to say of course, since Japanese grading originated in Ogawayama.

[jwi]

Good work sir.

8c down to 7c+/8a.  Swiss grades eat your heart out. 

No. 5-dan to 2-dan or 3-dan. In font speak this could be "from 8c to 7b+" or "from 8b+ to 8a" depending on where it sit in the grade range.