[r-man]

It's not the easiest way though, and to me the challenge was to get to the top.

There's an easy way up round the back. You've a very purist attitude for a Brownstone's afficionado 

Fear makes me see things differently. I find it hard to commit to the joy of the move when my bouldering mat looks like a beer mat, and my spotters look like smurfs. 

I'm not saying the lines people have claimed are bad, just that it seems odd the easiest way up is regarded as eliminate. Anyway, enough quibbling about this.

___

p.s. Beer and Smurfs. Dangerous combination. Smurfs can't swim.

[monkey boy]

Pogle's Wood sitter definately felt 7b+ to me but maybe it was just the conditions, all slopey holds and very greasy. Good little problem though enjoyed losing some skin on it. 

Anyone else find it hard?

[Bonjoy]

What's it given 7b? It was good nick when I did it and it felt hard but probably still 7b. I can imagine that pinch was hard to use yesterday. Great problem! It seemed a grade harder than Perfect Day Direct (even without the jump start) which seems more like easy 7a+ than 7b to me.

[Somebody's Fool]

Anyway, enough quibbling about this.

Can I just add this so aspirant ascensionists aren't put off trying an excellent highball because of it's 'eliminate' nature.  

As the man said, I don't think it is eliminate.  As I said earlier in the thread I have been up there three times now.  The logical line (IMHO) leads you rightwards up the ramp.  From this position it doesn't seem possible, let alone easier, to go to the left arete.  The top mantle certainly feels like the crux.  

Hopefully I'll bag it next time I'm there.

[monkey boy]

What's it given 7b? It was good nick when I did it and it felt hard but probably still 7b. I can imagine that pinch was hard to use yesterday. Great problem! It seemed a grade harder than Perfect Day Direct (even without the jump start) which seems more like easy 7a+ than 7b to me.

Yeh 7b so not much difference between the grade really. Like you said great little problem, will definately be going back to Gardoms to do all the other stuff. The one pad only restricted us slightly.

Good work on making up of a quality circuit!

[r-man]

Can I just add this so aspirant ascensionists aren't put off trying an excellent highball because of it's 'eliminate' nature. 

I'm sure it's enoyable whichever way you do it - Dynamic moves on good holds, to a classic highball finish, all with a perfectly flat landing. The direct way is obviously scarier, but I certainly wouldn't want to put people off, because it's a fine problem either way. I can see the appeal of added spice with the direct finish, but the left finish is good too.

As the man said, I don't think it is eliminate.  As I said earlier in the thread I have been up there three times now.  The logical line (IMHO) leads you rightwards up the ramp.  From this position it doesn't seem possible, let alone easier, to go to the left arete.  The top mantle certainly feels like the crux. 

It's not the easiest way up, hence it's an eliminate! I'm not saying the direct finish is rubbish, just that there's an easier way to finish, and that the easier way is very enjoyable.

True, if you follow the ramp to its end, the arete looks a long way away, but from the bottom of the ramp you can reach the arete. I slapped into it, then slapped again to get the good bit, then moved my right hand to the top of the ramp to get my foot up. Whatever the finish, it's a good problem.

Perhaps this discussion will arouse people's curiousity - BAU wasn't previously described in this thread, so perhaps it will see a bit more attention. It's certainly worthwhile.

Maybe the line I took needs a new name. A combination of the two seems fitting. Business as Business. This will avoid confusion. 

Hopefully I'll bag it next time I'm there.

Good luck! I'm sure I'll be back to have a look at the direct as well...

[Bonjoy]

I trust you'll be going back to bag the obvious Dirty As Usual linkup 

[a dense loner]

r-man are you on drugs. you honestly thought you'd get e5 6b for what you did?

[r-man]

Not really. Probably E1.

[Idol eyes]

Is reverse retro claiming a term of effect? posted a note earlier to say that the pillar in R mans pic is the Nigel Prestige-Mike Lea addition, which i put a low start on at E 7A... in 2000, after getting a taxi to the crag... did not name it.
a sitter could be arranged but to me, just locking the layaways is enough, then the dyno to the jug is ok. the smear for your rt foot is the key...

[Bonjoy]

I had a vague recollection that you had. Seem to remember you mentioning it and seeing it chalked and ting. I take it the left arete wasn't used? Pretty tough move!

[a dense loner]

can you clear this up for me idol joy? what did you do exactly? the right arete or straight up?

[Bonjoy]

Uh? Idle Arse did a standing non-jump start to Business As Usual (climb centre using no aretes), whether this used the left arete as a start hold was the source of my query. Rob Smith did Dirty Business the left arete on it's RHS. Jamie big-fingers also did DB but on it's LHS. R-man climbed a hybrid of BAU and DB. That's it.

[a dense loner]

so i still know nothing of note. did idol/you (idol) pull onto the straight up start using no aretes and then move to the jug? this would be very hard, circa one move 8a

[Idol eyes]

The layaway has three possible holds, the one I used is more of an side/under crimp, kind of the middle one rather than the highest one (nearest to the jug) crimp lft hand, lft foot in the on the large hold low down nr the Arete, smear rt foot v close to your rt hand, once you get used to that possition, the move is really wierd, you pull on, once tight againt the wall, launch lft foot away from the big hold, (your facing rt) you almost one arm the crimp whilst mid launch pulling hard on the layaway your foot pops from the smear at the same time as your rt hand leaves the layaway, you catch the jug facing Lft, long discription of what is a rather complex dyno.
Someone should try the double roof Underneath Waggy, wanted this to be the start to the route but found it to intimidating, also tryed the pocketed wall further lft, (possibly wall lft of English Voodoo)
Really missed the grit, back next year to witness the fitness

[r-man]

Did Double Bum the other day. Maybe. Just watched Winter Sessions again and Bonjoy does it with a pop from the starting hold to the pinch. We crossed into the undercuts, which were chalked up, then went to pinch. Does anything go, or is this an eliminate? Any knowledge?

Checked out English Voodoo too. How on earth do you do the sitter? Stumped we were.

[cofe]

We crossed into the undercuts, which were chalked up, then went to pinch.

that's how we did it. most logical way. still a good prob.

[a dense loner]

never noticed any undercuts

[Andy B]

It's a juggy flake up and left of the starting hold, and it makes the problem alot easier.

[a dense loner]

without undercuts, since am blind, the first move is one of the best ive done in years. think perfect day direct but easier and better

[Johnny Brown]

the first move is one of the best ive done in years. think perfect day direct

So we know what kind of moves you like then. Extremely simple reaches reliant purely on strength! No my idea of quality, no wonder you like campusing

[Rocketman Rob Smith]

Just to confirm Dirty Business does go all the way to the top on the right hand side of the arete i.e. its pretty highball. Just thought I'd confirm as some people have been finishing on the jugs where it gets a little high.

Thanks

Rob..

[Somebody's Fool]

the first move is one of the best ive done in years. think perfect day direct

So we know what kind of moves you like then. Extremely simple reaches reliant purely on strength! No my idea of quality, no wonder you like campusing

Perfect Day, if done properly, is actually a technical dyno.  And good.  Your main beef with it appeared to be the fact that what you had to catch was a lot smaller than the top of the Pebble, no wonder you like Deliverance.

[unclesomebody]

the first move is one of the best ive done in years. think perfect day direct

So we know what kind of moves you like then. Extremely simple reaches reliant purely on strength! No my idea of quality, no wonder you like campusing

Perfect Day, if done properly, is actually a technical dyno.  And good.  Your main beef with it appeared to be the fact that what you had to catch was a lot smaller than the top of the Pebble, no wonder you like Deliverance.

If done properly? I wasn't tall enough so I did this wonderful "technical dyno" that you speak of. But I guess for people an inch taller it is just a strength based lock.

[Somebody's Fool]

As opposed to a French start.