[Houdini]

I really do believe our monarchy is an absolute disgrace/laughing stock and the time is right for Britain to become a republic.  The notion that someone can be born into a position of royalty/power is for me, abhorrent & immoral. 

I've heard the arguments that they are ambassadors of UK business interests, yet most countries trade perfectly well without them.  They cost an absolute fortune to maintain; yes, one could say that is offset by their effect on UK tourism.

I believe Britain is desperately clinging to past that is no longer relevant to our future.  I want them out: not by revolution and an off with their heads! a la our French cousins - but peacefully.  Survival of the fittest they say, and this is one unhealthy race ripe for extinction.

Make your vote, and provide your reasoning.

[Bubba]

I don't care either way - they cost me 62p per year to run and I don't mind paying that to keep the fuckwits who cried when Diana died something to get off on.

[Houdini]

That's 40.3 million a year every year.

[BenF]

I've made my vote and I'm sorry, they need to go.  Whilst I can see Bubba's view that they don't cost much per capita, they still cost a lot and that money could be spent on useful things.  Like a tunnel under the Wirral and the Dee estuary so that I can get to North Wales in half the time. Like hospitals, schools, welfare state and the usual features of an advanced civilisation.

I really do believe our monarchy is an absolute disgrace/laughing stock and the time is right for Britain to become a republic.  The notion that someone can be born into a position of royalty/power is for me, abhorrent & immoral. 

I saw what you wrote Houdini, and I thought for a moment that the underlining meant that you had made suitable links for the words "abhorrant" and "immoral".  I was disappointed that when I clicked on "abhorrant", it didn't link straight to an appropriate webpage (eg Jade Goodey or the Republican Party - not that I am equating one with the other).

[Houdini]

A thousand apologies Sir!

[Bubba]

But if the monarchy went, who would all the fuckwits worship? The Beckhams? Big Brother slebs? It doesn't bear thinking about.

[Houdini]

Don't they worship them already?  ???

I was thinking of starting my own religion actually... 

[jfw]

ah ....to play devils advocate 

i quite like the idea of having a royal family, though they probably should get less tax money

the pomp and circumstance - changing of the guards - etc - are part of our culture and history- and good for tourism (given that we don't make anything in this country any more) - i also quite like our money and stamps.

the royal family would still be rich without state subsidy - or would we reclaim all their lands - what about the lands/properties of anyone else who inherited it?

if we abolished the royal family there would be still be super rich individuals and nepotistic families - without the sense of duty that i honestly suspect the queen feels. and these super rich individuals and families that there are now, defraud us constantly of millions of pounds by tax avoidance.

abolish the rich!

and ownership!

and marmite!

long live the revolution!!

[Houdini]

From Throneout:

Despite what royalists claim, the Windsor family wields an enormous amount of political power. In ever more desperate attempts to hold on to their privileges, they abuse the UK court system to silence dissent and issue injunctions against those who would seek to publish their embarrassing secrets. Recently, we have seen UK newspapers gagged and foreign imports confiscated and pulped. Even people bringing newspapers featuring reports of the recent Prince Charles scandal have had them confiscated. The Windsors and the UK establishment that maintains them are adopting police state tactics to ensure the British public that bankrolls their debauched lifestyles never knows the truth.

[Monolith]

I'd be very much up for hearing of an alternative religion. Perhaps one that is tailored around a love of rock. I can't remember the quota, but if enough people formed one, we'd get all sorts of rights, privileges and of course holidays. Is it a total myth, or can you actually write down that you are a Jedi on forms that ask to state your religion?

But yes, the Queen did come across somewhat of a cunt when Rolf Harris tried to paint her at Christmas.

[Nibile]

i have to agree that the idea that someone is "by birth" in a power position fights with the modern concept of human right.

problem:
what if it was the entire population that, by majority voting, would choose to give those people the right to be born in a superior position?
in terms of pure right: has the majority the power to decide in contrast with the universally accepted principle that everyone is born free and with same rights?

at which level of the legiferative hierarchy should this process be put?

[Houdini]

Sorry Nibs, but not even the Oxford English Dictionary has heard of this word.  What word are you fishing for?

EDIT - legiferative.  That's what I mean.

[fatboySlimfast]

I think a lot of people would be a lot happier with the royals if they would remove the plum from there gobs and do a little more for the people rather than opening a new biscuit factory in Wimborne once a week. I have to say I hate most of them for snotty way they look on the proles yet they are paying there wages! Prince Phillip and Prince Andrew are a right pair, poncing off the state yet at the same time hating the commoners. Didnt Andrew have a private jet to go to golf tournaments!
Dont sweden/spain have a royal family that are like politicians, privledged but not riding round in Gold carriages with footmen.
Never forget the historical significance of this family is fairly small, the Windsors kind of being the default royals due to historical wrangling.

[BenF]

But if the monarchy went, who would all the fuckwits worship? The Beckhams? Big Brother slebs? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Then let them worship whatever crap they want, but let's reduce the cost to the tax payer of maintaining these idols.  We have the choice whether or not we fund the Beckhams/Big Brother.  I'm happy paying my taxes (indeed I'd willingly pay more), I'd just rather they went on useful stuff that ideally improves peoples lives.  And even after abolishing the monarchy we'd still have the history of our Royals/nation etc so our monuments/museums would still draw tourists. 

I can't believe that our living monarchy really draws that many tourists just to watch some strangely dressed soldiers walk to and fro in stupid hats, but I'm certain our castles/palaces/museums/gardens etc do indeed attract tourists (just as historical monuments overseas draw tourists).

[fatdoc]

well,

 reckon we should keep them, but not spend as much on them...



why??



cos it keeps all the diana sobbing, football worshipping lower classes ( as in no imagination, not as in wealth) out of the peak / lakes / n wales etc.. and into white rose / meadowhall type shopping malls where they can accrue more debit, shout at the obese sullen kids trotting along in their wake and generelly keep out of my life.

the same concept runs true for celeb magazine readers and those fixated on big brother - it's all religion that subdues the masses.

how many times to you get to work on a a monday and the main converstion of what went on the weekend is about a bloody television programme - ahhhh....... so that wht the british population work 40 hrs a week, just to get brain washed when they are not at work, do no exercise and get into debt......

brilliant, fuckin brilliant.

[Nibile]

the subject is very interesting, i hope i can be clear, cos its nice to exchange views with people that live in a completely different law and right system.

[jfw]

Never forget the historical significance of this family is fairly small, the Windsors kind of being the default royals due to historical wrangling.

yeah did anyone see that channel 4 program bout the real king of england living in australia, "baldrick does history" or something

i like the idea of a royal family - whilst in no way believing they are gods chosen emissaries on earth - like some of these chaps seem to

[moose]

I have mixed feelings towards the monarchy.  In the current age, from a moral and ethical standpoint, a monarchy and our collusion in its maintenance, is absolutely absurd.  Although as an aside, technically I can see that there might be some justification in a some such institution (especially in the past).  Afterall the result of a democracy is generally a leader who reflects the idiocies of the voters.  Some kind of meritocratic tyranny could potentially be the most effective system for promoting the interests of the people?!

The problem is though that I can rarely be bothered to indulge in the rigours of rationality.  I frankly do not care enough one way or another, the effect of our monarchy on my life is too indirect and to my mind not particularly invidious.  I could be persuaded to sign a petition for constitutional change, but you will not catch me outside Buckingham Palace cudgelling a Beefeater to death with a statue of Thomas Paine whilst singing the La Marseillaise.

Re fatboyslimfast's comments.  I almost have the opposite view: one thing I hate more than herediary privilege is half-heartedness.  If we are to have a monarchy then it may as well be as grotesquely out-of-touch as possible.  If a royal family is going to pretend to be "normal": riding bicycles whilst wearing woolly jumpers, then what is the bloody point in their existance at all.  "Modern royalty" is an oxymoron.  For me the residual value of our royal family lies purely in their entertainment value: looking uncomfortable at tribal ceremonies involving nudity and feathered head-dresses, insulting foreigners without any sense of having said anything wrong.  I admit to a sneaking regard for the old-skool royals such as The Queen and Prince Phillip who continue our hallowed cultural traditions of pig-headedness and an unwarranted sense of superiority.   I am pretty certain it is not a life of unmitigated pleasure for them either.  The royal family are the original, and still the best, Big Brother household.  It is all there: repression, madness, stupidity, and funky costumes... all for a few pence a year.  They are our prisoners.

[Bubba]

don't forget horsey features from too much in-breeding

[Bonjoy]

 How fucked off are you going to be when the state says it can't afford your life saving meds but can afford to Andrew's private jet?

[jfw]

How fucked off are you going to be when the state says it can't afford your life saving meds but can afford to Andrew's private jet?

similarly fucked off as when they say they can afford galleries, museums, sports facilities, media study degrees.....

[fatboySlimfast]

The royal family are very media savvy these days with regard to there popularity and with some peoples opinion that a republican undercurrent runs through the british tabloid press...witness the Queen agreeing to pay Income tax in 1993 and a report in 2002 that the queen effectively takes nothing from the civil list with regard to what she puts in.........http://www.guardian.co.uk/jubilee/story/0,11550,724311,00.html howbver the truth is somewhat obscured

[SA Chris]

don't forget horsey features from too much in-breeding

Bloody right. Wouldn't want them von Hapsburgs contaminating the greater gene pool with overspill from their gene puddle. Keep them breeding amongst themselves until they end up the human equivalent of bloodhounds or pugs. Or something.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

That's 40.3 million a year every year.

which is peanuts. Compare that to the amount shit like Carousel fraud costs the UK each year, estimated to be around £8.5billion. Wheres the public campaign to get rid of the dodgy VAT fraud gangs that cost each of us nearly £150 a year? Personally I think the monarchy are an important part of our heritage and should be supported. Most of them work bloody hard at a difficult job that I wouldn't want to do.  Has anyone thought how much the royal family generates purely from foreign tourists? Look at it this way, I'd happily pay 62p a year so our country continues to be more culturally and historically interesting than republics. And it keeps 9toes in work. Bargain.

[soapy]

England swings like a pendulum do
Bobbies on bicycles, two by two
Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben
The rosy red cheeks of the little children

Now, if you huff and puff and you fin'lly save enough
Money up to take your family on a trip across the sea
Take a tip before you take your trip
Let me tell you where to go
Go to England, oh

England swings like a pendulum do
Bobbies on bicycles, two by two
Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben
The rosy red cheeks of the little children

Mama's old pajamas and your papa's mustache,
Falling out the window sill, frolic in the grass,
Tryin' to mock the way they talk, fun but all in vain,
Gaping at the dapper men with derby hats and canes.

England swings like a pendulum do
Bobbies on bicycles, two by two
Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben
The rosy red cheeks of the little children

England swings like a pendulum do
Bobbies on bicycles, two by two
Westminster Abbey, the tower of Big Ben
The rosy red cheeks of the little children





Gawd bless ya Ma'am..