[bigphil]

Everyone needs 'poptarts'.  I have fond memories of that night.  

[Control freak]

I was always a Loveshack man myself - found poptarts too trendy  :wink:

[Fiend]

Well. To go back on topic (or it almost seems to go back off topic now).

My partner is moving out and leaving me as a partner, but not, as it now seems, as a friend.

This, as painful and as scary as it is, has shocked me out of the state of mental complacency and denial that I have been in for quite a long time.

I have had some huge feelings, revelations, and realisations - and yes, looking at the possibility of children has been an important part of that, and many of the views people posted here have been useful to put into perspective my feelings and to tarry my old thoughts with my new ones.

There is so much I could write about this but I don't know if it is appropriate in this context. Suffice to say, the children issue, as a prime example of being open to new life possibilities, being open to life changes, and facing something that is really scary rather than just blocking it out, is important.

I might just reply to some points posted as I think it's an interesting discussion in it's own right.

[Bubba]

Sorry to hear that it has come to that Fiend, and hope it's not too painful

But better that than battling on with different fundamental wants on the matter.

[SA Chris]

My partner is moving out and leaving me as a partner, but not, as it now seems, as a friend.

Now there's a line I have heard before. I recommend a heart pissup, normally involving a several beers, some good mates, and some single malt. The pain fo the hangover puts it into perspective.

Hang in there mate.

[webbo]

in my experience.staying friends/being all reasonable with your ex can lead to the dumped partner ending up stuck i.e.not being able to move on.possible beliving by being reasonable they might come back/see the error of their ways.
often is their way of trying to avoid feeling guilty.
"no i have'nt dumped you i'd just rather have you as a fiend than shag you" :wink:

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Fuckin too right webbo. 'I want to be friends' means 'I don't want you to hate me for this because I'm a selfish bitch and don't want to feel guilty'. It just doesn't work staying friends with someone you felt something for because there's always 'maybe we'll get back together' floating around in the back of your head and you can't move on completely no matter what. Bollocks to 'em all I say. Also I wouldn't advise alcohol, but then you don't come across as a fucking stupid angry moron like me so you'd probbaly be ok under the influence. Just don't make contact when drunk. Ever. [rant over, sorry ]

[Fiend]

Webbo, FOAM - it doesn't feel like that. I don't know what will happen but it feels like we will be friends. We were friends before going out and friends during going out, we share some friendships elsewhere, and I know she has stayed good friends with at least one previous partner (who I know, he's a sound guy....for a mountaineer).

Bubba - Well, our views aren't so different now I've realised all I have recently....I have yet to live via those views (openness to life possibilities) though.

Don't worry though, getting bladdered is one possible option I don't really need to keep open  :wink:

[Bonnylad]

Sorry to read of your breakup, bet your glad you no married! I've heard women going on about still being freinds. It's a fine thought but sometimes mit's easier to make a clean break and look on the positive - going climbing whenever you like!

You could consult the excellent "Mildred" in the objective, well edited Sun Newspaper, see what she thinks. My advice - do what's best for you and don't get dragged into power struggles and head games if you have little to gain from the situation.

[Sypeland]

Fiend, just caught up with this astonishing thread!

I read the 1st page and skipped straight to the last where you go from concerns about parenthood to splitting up.

I was intitialy going to say about not to be worried or scared about being a father, yes it does change your life but as an adult you just have to adapt your life style. In my case I moved away from being a chuffer to being a boulderer, simply because when windows of opportunity presented themselves it was easier to just go.

But I wasn't concered about having kids, thats where you I differ. It's your concern. Women are generaly more likley to "want" kids more than men, after all men dont get broody they just get randy! Every guy I have known who has become a Father has had to change their lifestyle, but few if any have had to give up any aspect of it. If you became a father you wouldn't be able to do what you wanted when you wanted, but who can with or without kids. (only batchelors perhaps). Without calling you selfish, you should perhaps have considered the needs of the missus more. Having a child does involve personal commitment, but it also pays you back and makes your life more fullfiling even if you dont get as many ticks as a result.

[Bonnylad]

Just want to see if my new avatar works...

[Bonnylad]

Piss!

[Fiend]

FH, thanks for your comments. Although it was rather odd reading something so sensible on the subject with that avatar next to it.

"Selfish" - I would agree with that. I've often admitted to it. What I had realised is how much to my detriment it could be (not just in terms of this partnership).

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Don't get self deprecating Fiend. It's not selfish to not want a child FFS. It would have been selfish for you to have had one for your lass's sake and then resented or not loved the little bugger.

[Sypeland]

Don't get self deprecating Fiend. It's not selfish to not want a child FFS. It would have been selfish for you to have had one for your lass's sake and then resented or not loved the little bugger.

Which is the more selfish act, to have a child because the missus wants one or to not have a child even though the missus wants one?

It takes a very calous and selfish person to resent a child and not to love their own.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

So you think that having a child purely because your better half wants one is a good idea? Bringing another human being into the world, that you have a resonsibility to look after and support for its entire life, just because someone else wants one is a good idea?

It takes a very calous and selfish person to resent a child and not to love their own.

And? You seem imply that there's not many people like that around.

[Sypeland]

So you think that having a child purely because your better half wants one is a good idea? Bringing another human being into the world, that you have a resonsibility to look after and support for its entire life, just because someone else wants one is a good idea?

It takes a very calous and selfish person to resent a child and not to love their own.

And? You seem imply that there's not many people like that around.

I'm not implying anything. And the couple should want to have the child. If one doesn't and one does, and they want to stay together, then meeting on mutual ground is not enough, one has to relent. But in doing so may well resent the other.

It's a tough decision as one half will be upset.

I am saying no more on the subject as I have to earn a crust so the kids can eat tonight.

[webbo]

i had an intresting parent moment or two the other night.daughter aylish deciedes she wants to start climbing after a year off.after a few routes she sees two guys failing on the 5a next to her complaining about lack of reach/strength.she ties on as soon as they move on and strolls up it.much to their amazement,she returns to the ground with a big grin and gives me a wink when their not looking.
i felt quite proud. :D
10 mins later i'm trying to do a longish problem and suddenley hear tapping which distracts me which causes me to fall off cos i can recognise whos doing it.
now i don't feel proud just irritated. :evil:
kids who'd have em.

[c.j.d.]

I've got two kids, aged 1 and 3 - its fucking awesome, there a cracking pair who make me laugh (most of the time).  Yes, its bloody hard work, and I only get to climb twice a week, they get grumpy, and always need you, and will do for pretty much ever. I still go on trips (albeit shorter ones) and manage a night on the lash once or twice a month.  I would'nt change it for the world.  If you, however, only have kids to save a relationship, best split up now instead - the friction they cause even on the most stable relationships with two consenting parents is nuts sometimes.  You will also have no money, as usually, you lose a full wage coming into the house until they go to school full time!  Beware!