[Fiend]

Sorry for a heavy topic - sorry if it's rather UKC too, but I don't have anywhere I trust to find out about this, and I hope people here will be able to discuss it well.

Having children is probably the biggest life decision one faces. Particularly so when one doesn't want have them. I don't want to have children, for a variety of reasons, but my partner does. This is on the verge of causing us to split up. The severity of this situation is encouraging me to have a rethink about the possibility of children.

Thus I would like to hear the views/experiences of people on here - particularly since I think quite a few people here are of a similar age, are male, have partners, and also have a similar dedication to climbing and exploring that I do.

I know how serious having children is - I know that you have to dedicate your life to another person(s) for at least 20 years, I know that they require a vast amount of time, energy and devotion, I know that they prohibit many if not all of the freedoms that childless life entails, I know they cost a huge amount of money. ... I also know that parents usually find children very rewarding and life-enhancing (well, life-changing).

What I don't know, is that although prior to this I have been very anti-children for the reasons above and due to my own personality, I don't know how I feel about this now.

What are your views? Or experiences with/without children?

Thanks in advance.

[widdop]

been there and done it, go for it and   make a good job get them on the hill ASP ,  time there 10  years old  there  good to be with , and teens  will be leading you,  if you give them the chance, ive a lad on Skye , that leaves me for dead,  and now on with a 10 year grand kid , and he will make the grade,
       
             give me a child before he is five and i will give you the man                                                                                                                              
                    deep stuff

[Fingers of a Martyr]

All I'm saying is no. No. No. No.

child comes along girlfriend/wife now = a mother. that's it. a mother.

children = parasites

Basically if you want all your priorities and passions and dreams in life changed/erased/forgotten have a kid. If not then tell ya missus to keep tekkin the pills. Or dump her and find a new, improved model fiend. She's probably just hormonal or summit. Buy her a puppy or kitten ffs.

[Carnage]

You share exactly the same views as me and thankfully so does my missus so probs for me here  :D . The only good reason I can think of for having kids is to have someone to look after you when you're old and decrepid - And thats not a very good reason. Besides, I'm not responsible enough- I have trouble looking after the cat.

But from what I have seen, if one half is adamant on the kids and the other isn't it will usually be a breaker.

I can't imagine giving up:

A/ A nice disposable income
B/ Being to do what we want

I can also do without all the stress that goes along with them. I see friends with kids perfoming the military style operation it entails getting them/kids/pushchair/all the other shit together just to go to the shops and think 'thank christ thats not me'.

And why is it that when people ask you if you're gonna have kids and you say "no", they say "Oh, thats a shame". No it isn't - Its fucking great!

[a dense loner]

have kids fiend. if everything stopped for the sake of havin kids nothing would get done. even tom jones mum wrapped him in a shawl while she did the washing-up. plus i thought you'd got all them minature figures for one

[Control freak]

Ive been getting into these discussions recently too. Unfortunately Im allergic to cats and theres not enough room in our appartment for a dog. Stick insects are a non starter.

I keep getting swayed - on one hand kids ruin your life. Period. No more doing what you want when you want. No more fucking off round the world for 8 months. No more climbing hard (or at least trying - before anyone else jumps in).

But on the other hand there are plenty of climbers with kids that still climb hard and still travel lots (oh yeah, and its rewarding blah blah blah)

Andy Swann - 2 kids, complete mutant
Al Powell - 2 kids, full time mountain guide and general savage

To name but a couple.

Still not sure which way to go tho. I'll wait and see how certain prospective parents get on over the next year. Problem is, when the missus is mid thirties - the clock is ticking

[widdop]

and i forgot to tell you ,climbers kids grow up ,fast,

[Carnage]

Problem is, when the missus is mid thirties - the clock is ticking

So you'll be a write-off in the near future then  :wink:

[Control freak]

Problem is, when the missus is mid thirties - the clock is ticking

So you'll be a write-off in the near future then  :wink:

Never! Its starting to get a little cooler again now. Not too long and youll be able to see if all that hard work has paid off. Maybe off to centenial point this weekend if your interested

[webbo]

as the proud father of 12 year old aylish or kevin in her finer moments.i can tell you it will be as great and as bad as you could possibly imagine.i went through the same situation you describe fiend,with the missus at first not wanting kids then her wanting and me worrying about how much it would change things.in the end i went with the flow and i would'nt change that descion.if anything we should have had more kids but due to both of us working full time we could'nt afford two kids at nusery.
as for effecting lifestyle,you've just got work round it.having aylish has not stopped me doing the things i want,yeah it leads to arguments when you have a spare hour or two and want to nip out climbing.but that could happen without kids.
for instance last week my training/climbing was this mon cycling/atagonistics tues rest wed wall thur wall fri rest sat almscliff sun wall.plus going out with the missus and taking aylish to her riding lesson.also its 15 miles to the wall and 60 to almsliff.
the one thing you need inthe baby stage is your own board.this means you not nipping off to the wall and you can even train whilst baby sitting using a baby alarm.
its just life.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Thing is Fiend, as soon as the screaming, writhing, mucous covered ball of flesh pops out, chances are, your mind will be flooded with oxycotin and all sorts of crazy hormones and shit and you'll be tied to the kid forever. Then you'll think 'wouldn't change it for the world' etc.

[SA Chris]

children = parasites

Aren't you still classified as a child?

[webbo]

All I'm saying is no. No. No. No.

child comes along girlfriend/wife now = a mother. that's it. a mother.

children = parasites

Basically if you want all your priorities and passions and dreams in life changed/erased/forgotten have a kid. If not then tell ya missus to keep tekkin the pills. Or dump her and find a new, improved model fiend. She's probably just hormonal or summit. Buy her a puppy or kitten ffs.

maybe you should show this to your mum and dad when you are discussing financing you're time at uni.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Lets face it, we've all got to 'grow up' at some point, otherwise you'd end up with loads of 60 year old versions of Fingers. Scary.

Yeah, it'll be the most significant change in your entire life, but fuck it, who wants a boring/easy life? We all like a challenge don't we? Isn't that why we climb? I like to think I'm gonna be a fucking ace dad. :

I recon the good bits will far outweigh the hard slog. Well worth it in the end. Put it this way, don't know about you lot, but I'm WELL grateful that my parents had me. Alternatively if you consider yourself a selfish sponging git, probably best not to past those traits onto kids. Just let that gene pool fizzle out.

And yes Fiend, I'm in the same boat in regards to age, relationships etc.

[Fiend]

Thank you for your replies (including the PM).

It's genuinely good to hear people's perspectives on it, and some of them really make sense as to how I am feeling now.

Unfortunately, I think it might be too late - I might have to come to the realisation that this could be a possibility too late - as my partner is more determined to leave. This situation is very traumatic for me but has opened me up to life possibilities - children included - that I had shut out before.

As webbo said, it's just life. I've got see what I can do with it now.

[webbo]

fiend its never too late as long as your still talking.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Fiend I don't pretend to be a relationship expert, but have you been brutally honest with each other? If the idea of having kids scares the shit out of you, (but thats not to say you won't consider it) make sure she knows this before she walks away. Too many otherwise workable relationships fall apart because two people can't talk to each other.

[BenF]

I too have never wanted kids, my partner doesn't either which is obviously very good (in our eyes).  Makes everything very easy when we travel, climb, move continents etc.  Similar reasons to those given by you and by others such as Carnage.  It's obviously a massive decision/choice so you've got keep talking and discussing every facet of the thing.  Likewise, splitting up with a long term partner is a massive thing too, so keep up the talking and honesty for both of your sakes.

What I have got to add is that although most of my friends don't have children (through choice), those that do will all testify that having their child or children has been an incredibly positive thing for their relationships and their individual happiness.  Some were seriously unkeen at first but all now are happy and love having their children.  Even the most surprising people have become the most fantastic parents to wonderful children.  

And if you're thinking like I would; I know plenty of people who climb several times a week or have moved to foreign countries whilst also having kids in tow.

Tough time Fiend, but you're not alone out there, as this topic has shown.

[Pantontino]

During my 20s I was adamant that I didn't want kids. I just wanted to climb and party all the time. Then when I turned 30 I found myself increasingly disatisfied with the hedonistic lifestyle. Eventually I realised what the problem was: I wanted to start a family.

It's a rocky ride, even before you get to the baby bit (remember fertility problems and miscarriages are very common), and you will be more tired than you could ever imagine...but in the end it's what we are wired up to do.

I've got 2 young kids who make me laugh every day. The overwhelming sense of unconditional love that I feel for them still amazes me. Sure, I don't have much free time and I'm skint, and I can't just trip off to the states on a climbing tour, but then I look at my mate Streaky who's 50, with grown up kids, and I see that he is essentially living the life, climbing and surfing and doing pretty much what he wants, when he wants. So you can have it both ways in the end, you've just got to accept that there'll be a few decades in the middle where you won't be quite as free as you like.

If you feel it now, go with it. If you don't, then I guess you're going to split from your lady.

[widdop]

and if climbers didnt breed the entire world  will be missing a gene pool of head bangers  and nutts that make up the crag rat, breed             .so the world as we know it depends on YOU

[punkass]

Hmmm difficult one. My partner has kids but told me last night that there is no way he wants anymore and not with mwa. He expects me to go thru life helping him and his ex support their kids and help them have fulfilled lives but be an onlooker throughout it all hmmmm not what most folk aspire too! so you have to ask yourself how much it really means to you.
 There is no way I would put pressure on someone to have my children when they dont want anymore and that said I would not want my partner to pressure me into having his kids either if it didnt suit me - best to find someone that wants the same thing as you otherwise it will end in disaster for you, your partner and most importantly the child.

[Fiend]

Thanks once again, I am reading every post and appreciate almost everything that has been written. I might be able to apply to individual posts later, suffice to say a lot of it touches on what I've been feeling.

The situation as it is... This has been a lurking issue for a while, and since we've had opposing views on children, it seemed inevitable that it would split us up. However, recently, it's all happened very quickly - my partner has started to look for a room to move into, and says that she is leaving me (for the combination of my not wanting children, and having a narrow attitude that precludes having children).

This is devastating for me, but it has opened me up to what might be possible - including having children. I now feel that life might be able to take different routes than what I originally thought. This is a very genuine feeling, not something I've said for the sake of it.

But, although we have talked about this a lot, it seems too late for my partner, she seems to have been waiting long enough for me to be open to life's possibilities - and she still says she will leave. She's away working for a few days, and I presume when she returns she will be staying with me until she finds somewhere to move in to (a matter of a few weeks, possibly), but I think she might try to stay detached during that time.

I don't know what to do, but I do know I have to stay open to what life might entail.



I know this is quite personal - but I think I've been proved right that many people on here can be thoughtful about such matters.


Edit: Sorry, I've kinda repeated what I wrote earlier, I was just trying to clarify it a bit.

[AndyR]

Pretty much ditto for what Panto said - although we only have one junior unit, and I don't have any friends named after cuts of meat.

Why don't you move in with FH? He's always looking for someone to 'paint his toy soldier', so to speak.....

[Fingers of a Martyr]

All I'm saying is no. No. No. No.

child comes along girlfriend/wife now = a mother. that's it. a mother.

children = parasites

Basically if you want all your priorities and passions and dreams in life changed/erased/forgotten have a kid. If not then tell ya missus to keep tekkin the pills. Or dump her and find a new, improved model fiend. She's probably just hormonal or summit. Buy her a puppy or kitten ffs.

maybe you should show this to your mum and dad when you are discussing financing you're time at uni.

why? my parents decision to have a child (me) has no bearing on my own opinions on the matter. in my opinion i am essentially a leach on them. they pay for me, they bail me out and help me when i get myself in shit. but they chose to and continue to choose to do it and i assume they must get something out of it otherwise they'd have stopped doing it a long time ago.

and no Chris, I'm not classed as a child.

and personally i don't equate having kids as a sign of growing up. what about all the teenage mothers and parents who treat their kids like shit and abuse them? are they acting 'grown up'?

[webbo]

fiend unless you've undergone a dramatic personality change recentley.you're gonna be the same narrow outlooking guy your missus fell in love with and wanted to have kids with.so its about trying to get this across without pissing her futher off.if that do'nt work you can try something along the lines of all that time house training you does she really want to do that again or waste that effort.

if shes worth fighting for then fight to save it.it ain't over till you let it be.or she kills you.
luck