[andy_e]

when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!

[mark]

E2's good Andi.

However, and this is just my opinion, one of the best things in climbing is doing the really great routes when they are just the right level for you. By rushing through grades you miss out a lot. So while there may be E4s out there that will suit you or are easy for the grade, the best thing is to do shit loads of brilliant E2s, and get really solid at the grade, then do the same at E3 and so on. You're young, so you have bags of time. And that way, when you get to E4, and you soon will, you can have a go at any one and get up it.

This really will be a much more satisfying way of climbing, for as sure as eggs are eggs, even if you did get up an E4, the next week you could be having a 'mare on an E1, and that just gets depressing.

And when you are solid at E4, you will realise all the ones that are easy for E4 are actually E3s.

I was going to say just enjoy it and don't worry too much about the grades, but you obviously know that already and don't need me to tell you.

Oh, and response to your other post, I'm starting to think that you'll never please everyone, and, like grades, sometimes there's no point worrying about it.

That may be the most supportive, positive thing I've read on the internet. I'm not sure whether to cry or be sick.

I really ought to climb with you more often. Positive encouragement would be a welcome change from the usual "Come down, you're hurting the crag, fat boy" abuse hurled my way.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!

And that may be the stupidest, randomest thing i've ever read on the internet.

[SA Chris]

andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.

E2 5b - a solo at Harcles' Hill (forget the name)

Andi, I'm sure you dont need me to warn you of this, but if you are thinking of moving from a single E2 solo to leading something like Old Friends, you may be tempting contracting a mild dose of premature painful death. Learn to place gear well before thinking of climbing E grades. Unless the E4 query was mild speculation, then you really are a stupid kid.

[webbo]

andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.

E2 5b - a solo at Harcles' Hill (forget the name)

thats suprises me not at all.i suspect it will be about 20/25ft high as well.

[dave]

i agree with a lot of what marky mark and busta grimes say about doing stuff more at your grade and not trying to get softtouches etc. For a start If you're solid at E2 then its not doing a soft touch E4 thats going to make you an E4 climber, its getting stronger and better that going to make you and E4 climber.

However i think its only natural to be drawn to bigger grades, climbing by its very nature is an aspirational activity where you always tend to look to the next thing, always looking for improvement. And if the superficiality of chasing a grade makes you more motivated to get one harder things or to try hard then thats great. I remember for years i only felt that i could do routes that were soft touch...but soft touch regardless of the grade up to about E4. Like i would get bummed on a hard E1, but would always be fine on a soft touch E3 or E4. Maybe because when you think its a harder grade you always try harder or something.

Another good thing about grade-chasing though is that it can effectivley break down the stigma of grade boundaries. I've spoken to people who, say, were rock solid at E1, but would be totally petrified of attempting an E2 or E3 because it was "out of their grade", regardless of the fact that many of the hard E1s they'd done would be harder that soft E2/3s. Same with people who can lead any HVS but never try and E1 cos of the psychological barrier. If they had done a soft E1 back when they were solid at Vs then that mental barrier wouldn't exist, and maybe they'd improve more as they weren't scared of pushing themselves.

At the end of the day its all 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

[andy_e]

when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!

And that may be the stupidest, randomest thing i've ever read on the internet.

it was on the simpsons ten minutes before i posted it

[SA Chris]

Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.

Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.

[andy_e]

Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.

Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.

read grimer's post before it

perhaps i could do with some ritalin

[a dense loner]

i have noticed your grammar's been slipping recently

[dave]

hell, why don't you two get a room?

[a dense loner]

because over the last few centuries torture has become illegal, in most supposedly humane countries at least

[andy_e]

i have noticed your grammar's been slipping recently

mine? never! where?

[Fiend]

Pah. Grade chasing is bollocks. Meaningless, self-defeating, bollocks.

The people you're talking about, Dave, (from reading UKC and indeed overhearing people IRL, there are a shockingly large amount of them), who are concerned with the grade rather than what it means. They need to start THINKING a bit. A grade is just a piece of information, it's just something that summarises the approximate challenge of a climb. It's number is irrelevant, it's the meaning that is the only thing of interest.

Chasing grades so that people push themselves harder - if people thought a bit more, they'd realise they can push themselves any irrespective of what number the challenge has. Either your motivated to tackle a harder challenge or you aren't. If you really need a different number to tackle that challenge, that's shallow and spurious. I'd hope people were a bit more "into" climbing than that.

Chasing grades to "break into" a grade - if people really think that the next grade is impenetrable because it is the next grade, they need to think a LOT more. All the next grade is is slightly more challenge, that's all it means. The difference between a grade and the next grade is that the next grade is a bit more difficult, if you want to climb something a bit more difficult then FFS give it a try and stop getting hung up on the numbers.

It's quite simple and I don't know why so many people (not here, people do seem to think more on here) don't get it:

It's not about the grade it's about what it MEANS i.e. the challenge.

It's not about higher grades it's about a harder challenge.

[andy_e]

someone's not had their ritalin

i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.

[SA Chris]

Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.

Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.

read grimer's post before it

perhaps i could do with some ritalin

I was thinking cyanide.

[SA Chris]

someone's not had their ritalin

i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.

You are clearly missing the point of what every sorry fool has been kindly and patiently trying to explain to you.

Given your currently track record; a single soloable E2, I think leading anything HVS or above that needs placing gear will be a challenge to you.

You remind me of another andy.



"I want to climb E4"

"But Andy you arent good enough to climb E4, or even most E1s yet"

"Yeah I know"

"I want to climb E4"

etc

[webbo]

because over the last few centuries torture has become illegal, in most supposedly humane countries at least

apparentley its o.k. if your american as long as you don't do it in your own back kitchen.

[webbo]

someone's not had their ritalin

i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.

if this is the case why wre you enquiring about soloing edge lane with a knotted rope hanging down it on cocktalk the other day.

[andy_e]

someone's not had their ritalin

i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.

if this is the case why wre you enquiring about soloing edge lane with a knotted rope hanging down it on cocktalk the other day.

i was just thinking about the ethics as opposed to actually doing it

[Bubba]

"I want to climb E4"

"But Andy you arent good enough to climb E4, or even most E1s yet"

"Yeah I know"

"I want to climb E4"

etc

Remarkably accurate - Andi, you've managed to turn this into a typical ukc topic, please will you stop it.

If you want the number that bad (and yes, you are just chasing a number), just go and get on the routes suggested by people on here.

Don't complain if you fail miserably, shit your pants, or hurt yourself, at least you'll have tried...

...but don't come on here, ask for advice and then continually ignore just about everything people are advising you, it just winds us all up.

[andy_e]

I'm not ignoring anyone am I?

[SA Chris]

I'm not ignoring anyone am I?

i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.

Seems to indicate otherwise. :roll:

[Bubba]

dunno why E4, it just seems a good number.

Sorry, but this topic is really silly, and has run it's course anyway.

Locked.

[Bubba]

unlocked - thinking about it, locking a topic on the grounds of silliness was wrong of me.

Sorry andi, but plz keep it sane, and Chris stop rising to the bait