[r-man]

8a.ooh

Dai Koyamada has kept himself busy also after his European tour last fall. This spring he's climbed quite a few hard problems crowning it all with an ascent of Hydrangea, 8C/+:
"On April 22nd, I sent one of my projects at Nodachiiwa in Shiobara, Japan. It's a 25-move, 14-meter problem with 9 meters of horizontal roof. The sit-start extension of Hydra, 8B+, (put up 20 Dec.) the problem starts with 6 moves of 8A/+ and links to Hydra with no rest.
A month ago, the world #1 also opened Catharsis, 8B+, in the same area. Hydrangea continues the trend of hard boulder problems becoming longer and longer.

Planetnervous

Dai Koyomada, undisputedly one of the strongest boulderers in the world has once again taken the reins at the cutting edge of the sport. This time he has established another super hard problem at Shiobara in Japan. Hydrangea goes at 8C/8C+, ranking it with is 'Wheel Of Life' in the Australian Grampians as the joint hardest problem yet. Dave Graham, Chris Sharma and Fred Nicole have all established super hard problems over the past few years, but have either played down the grades or shied away from the issue. Dai has no such qualms it appears. Hydrangea is an extension to Hydra, also one of Dai't problems at Shiobara and 8B+ in itself. It is 25 moves and 14 metres long, with 9 metres of horizontal roof, the hall mark of his problems (routes?), and characteristic of many of the harder problems of the day.

[SA Chris]

In a world of his own, one way or the other. Either in terms of his ability, or his detachment from reality.

[petje]

Everything above 10 till 12 moves should be graded as a sportsclimb!

[ned]

i want to see a one move wonder V16, beeeeeeef!

[JohnM]

It seems that for boulder grades to get higher the problems have to get longer and longer.  I mean i'm in no doubt that the climbing of these problems are amazing achievements but are they boulder problems and can they justify a V grade.  It seems that lots of boulderers outside this country are happy to grade their traverse/horizontal sport route 'problems' with a V grade.  I feel that in this country we are more in touch with reality, for example, Malc Smith giving the big link in Parisellas 9A instead of a V grade.

As for a one move wonder V16!!!!!! A dyno from two match stick sized crimps on a 45 degree over hanging wall to catch a shallow mono dish!!???

[Mr.Burns]

Gaskins's project on the Shelter stone in Trowbarrow.... ok its about 3/4 moves but i'll give you V16 for it.

[Ru]

I don't think that its got anything to do with being in touch with reality, giving long problems route grades, it's just an effort to describe the difficulty in the best way possible. In this country, where sport routes are on average 15m long, with 3/4 clips, a 25 move boulder problem does seem very like a route. However, if you were to ask Dani Andrada who regularly does routes that are 50m+ with 100+ moves he'd probably say that 25 moves was nothing, and think that a boulder grade gave a better idea of difficulty. It's horses for courses, all a grade does is try and give you an idea of how hard it is to do something. Personally I reckon that boulder grades for long problems is the most sensible option in this country - what's the point of grading the powerband route 8a+ when 95% of people that do it have never been on a route 8a+ to compare it to?

[dave]

bouldering is about doing stuff that you can fall off onto the floor in relative safety, not about the length of the problem. giving problems route grades is meaningless, if you're not clipping bolts on it then its not a sport route. I mean i bet theres more moves on Help the young SS or ron's slabs that there is on powerband, but we're not giving them french grades.

[Johnny Brown]

You're on drugs man. Powerband has way more moves.

[dave]

how many (hand) moves are there on HTYSS then? theres about 14 on powerband i recon.

[Johnny Brown]

Not sure how you work this out??? Counting holds and intermediates, 8 with the left hand, 4 with the right. Do I win a fiver?

[SA Chris]

My comment had nothing to do with the route/boulder problem argument Ru. What I meant was that he is either way better than anyone else, or he has lost the plot when it comes to grading.

[dave]

Not sure how you work this out??? Counting holds and intermediates, 8 with the left hand, 4 with the right. Do I win a fiver?

ok then 12 on yours, 14 on PB - taking into account different sequences etc its all ballpark and about the same, so my point still stands.

[Johnny Brown]

Eh???? There are less moves, and several are on intermediates. PB has loads of massive reach throughs etc. The point falls Dave. And Ron's slab has lots less.

[Bonjoy]

I have done Powerband with 12 hand moves :wink: .
 It's all very well for boulderers to give trav probs a route grade but sport climbers are equally precious and will justifiably claim that you don't get an 8a+ route tick for Powerband cos it's a boulder problem. Both arguments seem to be based on protecting the cachet attached to the prefered type of climb, nobody wants the yardstick of their acheivements watering down with dirty traverses. No wonder the frenchies invented the traverse grade. Piss everyone off I reckon and give contentious problems a font grade and a french grade (which is what we do informally anyway), that way the grade fulfills its role of describing the difficulty of the climbing to climbers of all backgrounds.

[Johnny Brown]

I have done Powerband

lets face it, the rest is just gravy.

[Scouse D]

I have done... 12 hand moves

The rest is all gravy
Stamina beyond the call of duty that is

[squeek]

What I meant was that he is either way better than anyone else, or he has lost the plot when it comes to grading.

It's not like he's some unknown climber who hasn't done any test pieces elsewhere. Didn't he do Chaos in Font in 'a few goes'? His other V16 downunder must have been tried/seen by lots of other climbers.   Plus he's not 'way better' than anyone else, just one grade.  If he thinks it's V16 he's right to give it that grade, then if it turns out the repeaters feel it's a different grade a consenus will develop.  Better giving it V16, if it's 2 grades harder than the V14s you've done, and harder than the V15s, rather than give it V15 and downgrade everything else you've done.
Not that I've any idea, just another punter rambling on about grades that I'll never get to...   ho hum.

[Bonjoy]

I have done Powerband

lets face it, the rest is just gravy.

 So I can do the crag warm up, what of it? I haven't tried it in trainers yet though....  


 Are you entering this year, I hear they're staging a leg at Burbage? :wink:

[SA Chris]

Not that I've any idea, just another punter rambling on about grades that I'll never get to...   ho hum.

Ye and me both mate. Either way, strong bastard.

[dobbin]

PB is 12 moves if you are a purist, 14 if you flange out of the drop down.

Testify.

[Ru]

My comment had nothing to do with the route/boulder problem argument Ru

Actually I was replying to this:

I feel that in this country we are more in touch with reality, for example, Malc Smith giving the big link in Parisellas 9A instead of a V grade.

and not this:

In a world of his own, one way or the other. Either in terms of his ability, or his detachment from reality.

Anyway, I do 14 hand moves on PB *BUT* 25 foot moves. I felt obliged to contribute that for some reason.

[Johnny Brown]

Aha! Now we get closer to the truth... HTYSS has 5 or 6 foot moves. Get a plate Dave, and a knife and fork.

[cowboyhat]

Was this all from the outset a thinnly veiled boast by dave that he's done pathband?

Long stamina type routes like this hide ranger v16 are def boulder problems - because they are easier to work. As someone else made the point about landings etc its all about accessability and the psychological difference between bouldering and anything involving a rope.

[Doylo]

Long stamina type routes like this hide ranger v16 are def boulder problems - because they are easier to work. As someone else made the point about landings etc its all about accessability and the psychological difference between bouldering and anything involving a rope.

agree with that, i reckon most people would find powerband a more doable proposition than an 8a+ route