UK General Election 2024

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Bradders

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
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Had some fun last night coming up with a few tabloid headlines:

- Things Can Only Get Wetter
- Drowned Out
- Soggy Sunak Says See Ya
- Wet D:Reams
- Damp Dishi Ducks Out
 
Sadly Toryism has already won -though via an internal conversion of "changed" Labour.

I got this email today:

"My Labour government will be mission-driven. And ambitions start with first steps:
Step 1: Deliver economic stability
Step 2: Cut NHS waiting times
Step 3: Launch a new Border Security Command
Step 4: Set up Great British Energy
Step 5: Crack down on antisocial behaviour
Step 6: Recruit 6,500 new teachers in key subjects
Stone, you can make this all happen."

I suppose there is still a hope (infinitesimally slight) that "Deliver economic stability" will be by way of what Labour was founded to do over a 100years ago:- setting up sectorial collective bargaining so that everyone working is paid well and pays plenty of tax instead of suffering in-work poverty. That works. That is why in Nordic countries there are people living affluently and paying tax whilst doing jobs that here leave workers depending on in-work benefits.

Our economy is now in the mess that low pay means many are on in-work benefits (in effect a subsidy skewing the economy towards forms of employment with low pay, low productivity etc). https://www.ft.com/content/b7ad1c68-59fb-11e2-b728-00144feab49a
 
One would presume climate will feature in the manifesto, but the proposed Great British Energy pertains to climate surely.

Out of interest what are people hoping for climate wise in the manifesto?
 
Johnny Brown said:
Nothing on climate?
I suppose "Step 4: Set up Great British Energy" touches on that a bit. But the gulf between that and "net zero by 2030" couldn't be starker. Energy conservation in buildings, transport, land use etc etc seem missed.
 
spidermonkey09 said:
Out of interest what are people hoping for climate wise in the manifesto?
1) A rational, planned, rapid transition to CO2-free electricity -designed by engineers. I guess that would entail a lot of nuclear and off-shore wind.
2) Free widespread public transport and efforts to reduce need for commuting etc. Ban private jets.
4) Massive retrofit of buildings to improve energy conservation.
5) Passivhaus level building standards for new buildings.
6) Dramatic land use reform -rewilding etc. "Moors for the future" type restoration of peatlands at dramatic pace everywhere applicable.

I expect none of that.
 
Yes, that's rather a specific definition of hope! In the same vein I hope to win the lottery tomorrow despite having not bought a ticket.

Joking aside I don't disagree with the aims but the level of radicalism you seek hasn't been indicated in any way, so hoping for it seems optimistic.
 
Stone, let’s just get Labour in first and prove they can govern effectively. They can then transform the country to a social democratic utopia over the course of 2 or 3 parliaments
 
Word to that Stone! But really all I was hoping for would be an upfront statement that Sunak's watering down of climate commitments would be reversed. We simply don't have time for anything else.

Look highly likely I'll be voting Green. Again.
 
Johnny Brown said:
Look highly likely I'll be voting Green. Again.

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I'm voting for Kang because Kodos has been fucking dreadful and, even if Kang does not promise everything I want, they are a far better alternative to re-electing Kodos, and the only realistic alternative that our political system provides.

At the selection vote my Kang party candidate spoke enthusiastically about vote reform in the first Kang parliament.

VOTE FOR KANG.
 
Long live FPTP! Can't believe you fuckers had the chance to vote it out and did the whole "turkeys for Christmas" thing. The mind boggles.

One simple green aim for me, ok 2:

1. Decouple electricity prices from gas prices.
2. Low cost credit for renewable energy projects. We bloody well socialise banks risks, companies risks (by bailing out pensions funds etc.) so why not socialise our future energy system.

Cost of capital is currently one of the biggest barriers to offshore wind development, and one of the few parameters the government could actually tweak.
 
teestub said:
Stone, let’s just get Labour in first and prove they can govern effectively. They can then transform the country to a social democratic utopia over the course of 2 or 3 parliaments
As an abstract thought experiment, if Starmer were to (as he has) ditch the "Peoples Vote" stuff that he pushed so hard in 2019 (to Labour's consequent demise) but otherwise keep much of the 2019 manifesto, do you think the Tories would be on course for victory now?

As I've said before, I don't think the Tories are especially inept at implementing Tory policies. Our problems are those policies. We'll have the same problems whichever Party implements them. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Fultonius said:
One simple green aim for me, ok 2:

1. Decouple electricity prices from gas prices.
2. Low cost credit for renewable energy projects. We bloody well socialise banks risks, companies risks (by bailing out pensions funds etc.) so why not socialise our future energy system.

Cost of capital is currently one of the biggest barriers to offshore wind development, and one of the few parameters the government could actually tweak.
I suppose in principle Starmer's "Great Britain Energy" could use gilt financing for lots of wind+nuclear+grid stuff. I think the cost of capital is even more of pinch point for nuclear than it is for offshore wind. Ed Milliband is a Labour minister who I've still got some hope for. I'm clinging to this as my chink of light.
 
I believe our transition to carbon neutral and even net zero, continues quite rapidly:

https://grid.iamkate.com/

As an aside:
I’ve spent the week seemingly talking about nothing except the transition of marine engine manufacturing to Methanol fuel, including a heated meeting with Rolls Royce, here in Dubai, where they outlined their intentions to transition over the next ten years to solely Methanol production. Representatives of several Middle Eastern Navies, quite taken aback, along with a few reps from the oil and gas sector.
One quite irate delegate complained methanol just isn’t available in the mid east, Denise Kurtulus (VP Global Marine, RR) shrugged her shoulders and replied “it will have to be”.
Of course green methanol isn’t big enough yet…

“The Market” knows which way the wind is blowing and once the decision is made, it will go after it like an XL Bully on a toddler.
You’d be surprised how many local nations have noticed they get quite a bit of sunshine here and the finite nature of oil and gas reserves…

Right, election, why do so many people seem to think Labour is a shoe-in? The poling looks closer than I would like to take that bet.
Ok, Labour is aggregating around 44%, Cons 22 ish, but Reform are polling at 11+. A slight upset in Labour’s run and we could be looking at a Con/Reform coalition. Is that too far fetched? Really?
I arranged a postal vote, prior to leaving this time. I will vote Labour, for the first time in my life.

Edit: I almost did last time, but I’m a Liberal really and bottled it.
 
Oldmanmatt said:
Right, election, why do so many people seem to think Labour is a shoe-in? The poling looks closer than I would like to take that bet.
Ok, Labour is aggregating around 44%, Cons 22 ish, but Reform are polling at 11+. A slight upset in Labour’s run and we could be looking at a Con/Reform coalition. Is that too far fetched? Really?
This website has seemed pretty good to me in the past. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
It is hard to get to a Con/Reform coalition from their seat predictions. It is hard for thinly spread votes to get converted into seats. UKIP got no seats in FPTP elections despite sizeable vote share.
 
stone said:
Oldmanmatt said:
Right, election, why do so many people seem to think Labour is a shoe-in? The poling looks closer than I would like to take that bet.
Ok, Labour is aggregating around 44%, Cons 22 ish, but Reform are polling at 11+. A slight upset in Labour’s run and we could be looking at a Con/Reform coalition. Is that too far fetched? Really?
This website has seemed pretty good to me in the past. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
It is hard to get to a Con/Reform coalition from their seat predictions. It is hard for thinly spread votes to get converted into seats. UKIP got no seats in FPTP elections despite sizeable vote share.

I hadn’t considered it in those terms, it’s a good point.
However, lingering doubt, right wing voters are no dumber than progressives, despite appearances. They’ve seen the effect in recent elections of the split and it’s not local anymore. Perhaps any blue is better than even a hint of pink to them and come the day, they’ll plump for the darker shade?
Again, the actual split between right and left looks as it always does, if for once, the right looks more divided than the left. ‍♂️
 
stone said:
As I've said before, I don't think the Tories are especially inept at implementing Tory policies. Our problems are those policies. We'll have the same problems whichever Party implements them. I hope I'm wrong.

I think that in (what feels like) the last 12000 years of government, the tories have been successful in moving the Overton window a long way right. Therefore I think a pragmatic approach to avoid being labelled another loopy radical like Corbyn is to start centrist, then move left over years of successful government.

I hope they do something on Europe as well as climate, customs union? Prob not for manifesto though, too spicy.

Wonder if they are still nervous on climate after ulez stuff in the by-election?
 


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