[Sasquatch]

Shawn Raboutou has a similar-ish background to Will and Aidan and I'd put money on him taking the Mellow crown from Daniel/Jimmy/Nalle over the next few years if he hasn't already.

I'd say he probably has already. It seems pretty likely he's done Megatron, so he's got 2x 9A to his name plus a string of other super hard things to his name.

It seems like Drew Ruana has been trying and still seems to indicate it's a project.  I don't know either, so I have no firsthand knowledge. 

[Fiend]

And burden the first 9A+?

Not sure I extrapolated that, more than Burden was harder to repeat location / conditions-wise, but otherwise merely 9A.??

[Duma]

4. Alphane is 8C+

[Wellsy]

I reckon BoD is harder than 9A, just because of how long it took.

Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.

[remus]

5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.

[abarro81]

5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.

The eternal question if whether things should be (and, slightly separately, whether they typically are) graded for how hard they are, or how hard they are to do...

[jwi]

5. Alphane and Honey Badger aren't as conditions dependent as the harder stuff at the tor. He mentions in the vid that things should be graded for climbing them in good conditions, but that does throw a spanner in the sessions=>grade calculator when the cons are hard to get right.

The eternal question if whether things should be (and, slightly separately, whether they typically are) graded for how hard they are, or how hard they are to do...

They should be graded for the former, but for something rarely in condition, how would you find out?

[abarro81]

I'm thinking of it as a broader question, not just conditions - e.g. put Hubble at the top of a 20m 7a to a ledge; would be harder to do but not harder... But based on my experience would probably get a higher grade, though it does vary a bit

[36chambers]

Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.

I'm not sure about the first part, which 8C+s do you mean?

Sleepwalker was a multi-season effort (albeit with FA woes and using harder beta). Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure he's done another confirmed 8C+, since the jury's still out for things like Livin Large and Gioia.

[36chambers]

6. One person is not enough to make a consensus. Could you imagine if it turned out Will couldn't do The Big Island, let alone the sit. Where would that leave us?

[Duma]

We need Simon Lorenzi to pull his finger out and get it done and give it 8C+ so we can move on. Be interesting to see if the yanks disregard it if he does in the same way they ignore Soudain Seul in these discussions

[Wellsy]

Nalle was on form for doing 8C+ in a handful of sessions. He spent literally dozens of sessions trying individual moves on Burden. There seems to be an excluded middle there.

I'm not sure about the first part, which 8C+s do you mean?

Sleepwalker was a multi-season effort (albeit with FA woes and using harder beta). Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure he's done another confirmed 8C+, since the jury's still out for things like Livin Large and Gioia.

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

[User deactivated.]

Maybe the top end grades discussion should split off?

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!

[Bradders]

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

[36chambers]

We need Simon Lorenzi to pull his finger out and get it done and give it 8C+ so we can move on. Be interesting to see if the yanks disregard it if he does in the same way they ignore Soudain Seul in these discussions

Nico Pelorson, who did the second ascent of Soudain Seul (and suggest 8C+), has just posted an insta story showing that he's currently having his first session on Alphane  

[yetix]

Maybe the top end grades discussion should split off?

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!

I'd wager https://www.instagram.com/p/Ckdnw6UyXMq/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY= given he's linked the first 3 moves of BOD and as far as I'm aware aidan hasn't done move 1 yet, idk about timonov? Has Ryohei been closer? He's the other person I was thinking of re BOD.

Also Matt Fultz underrated?! He's cleaning up in the USA!

[remus]

BoD might get a repeat or 2 over the next year (I'd bet Timonov followed by Roberts) so we may get some commentary on where it stands in comparison to other hard problems.

ROTS could also see a repeat as the underrated beast Matt Fultz has put time into it. I'd be very surprised to see that one do down in grade based on how hard the stand is!

Interesting. My money would be on one of the Japanese wads for the second ascent of BoD, Toru or perhaps Ryuichi.

I'll be interested to see what grade ROTS settles at. The stand has had a lot of ascents so I could imagine it going down to 8C one day, though not sure that'd bump ROTS down.

(All said from the comfort of my armchair obviously.)

[Muenchener]

[idk about timonov?

Getting a Finnish visa could be problematic in current circumstances, unless a professional climber going climbing counts as an essential business trip & not tourism.

[Wellsy]

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.

[remus]

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.

I don't think Nalle ever actually suggested 8C+ for Finnish line, I think he just said something like "for me it's the hardest boulder in rocklands" which people took to mean "it's a grade harder than all the other 8Cs".

[MischaHY]

The Finnish Line got upgraded to 8C+ and he did it in a few sessions I think? Bugeleisen Sit although I think that took him a while.

No, Nalle said 8C+ but subsequent repeaters have downgraded it to 8C, whilst Livin' Large is the other way round; Nalle said 8C, others 8C+.

Bugeleisen Sit is 8C isn't it?

Oh I didn't know it had been downgraded tbh. I only saw that it was 8C+. That's fair then.

I don't think Nalle ever actually suggested 8C+ for Finnish line, I think he just said something like "for me it's the hardest boulder in rocklands" which people took to mean "it's a grade harder than all the other 8Cs".

Wasn't it one of these 'It's such a good line that I don't want to grade it' things 

[Bradders]

I'll be interested to see what grade ROTS settles at. The stand has had a lot of ascents so I could imagine it going down to 8C one day, though not sure that'd bump ROTS down.

(All said from the comfort of my armchair obviously.)

Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?

I'm thinking of it as a broader question, not just conditions - e.g. put Hubble at the top of a 20m 7a to a ledge; would be harder to do but not harder... But based on my experience would probably get a higher grade, though it does vary a bit

I was going to say something similar. There are problems which are hard, but easy to do...the more accessible graded example that's springing to my mind is Impropa Opera Sit. As it is people turn up, probably have a dabble on the first move at some point in their session and try other things, eventually doing the move and then the problem. It's always dry, you only need one pad to try the crux and once you're through the crux it's a relative path. Hence despite it being a pretty flipping hard move people keep giving it 7C+ and it gets lots of ascents.

If you put that exact problem, even just the sit start to getting up to the stand start holds, at somewhere like Harter Fell it'd be the hardest thing there, get a much higher grade, and would hardly ever get done.

Alphane strikes me as the Impropa Opera Sit of 9A.

Sleepwalker is probably the same for 8C+ in the Western US.

[Duma]

Surely the fact it's had lots (7? 8?) of ascents, with everyone agreeing it's 8C+, is an indication that the grade is correct and has achieved a clear consensus?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Wellsy]

Clearly Will Bosi caught us talking meaningless shite in his thread and decided to get it back on track;

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck06Xf0D5cI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Ephyra 8C+

[Kingy]

Amazing!! Could be the quickest ever send of an 8C+??