Quote from: Teaboy on February 07, 2022, 12:52:26 pmthis is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?That has always been the first and last concern that people have about Franco. As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else. It's a good job he enjoys the attention, and an even better job that his ego isn't made of glass.
this is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?
He's obviously a narcissist
Quote from: Doylo on February 07, 2022, 12:45:24 pm He's obviously a narcissistI agree with the rest of your post but I think this is unfair. The North York Moors guide would look and read very differently if a narcissist had produced it.
Quote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 01:38:14 pmQuote from: Teaboy on February 07, 2022, 12:52:26 pmthis is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?That has always been the first and last concern that people have about Franco. As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else. It's a good job he enjoys the attention, and an even better job that his ego isn't made of glass.What examples are there of him being held to a different standard?
Quote from: ali k on February 07, 2022, 09:01:30 amif I wasn’t staying on the overhanging side I’d be questioning whether I’d done it.And Andy stuck more to the overhanging side than Dan, Ned and Will. Does that mean they haven't done it?
if I wasn’t staying on the overhanging side I’d be questioning whether I’d done it.
Quote from: Ged on February 07, 2022, 01:53:40 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 01:38:14 pmQuote from: Teaboy on February 07, 2022, 12:52:26 pmthis is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?That has always been the first and last concern that people have about Franco. As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else. It's a good job he enjoys the attention, and an even better job that his ego isn't made of glass.What examples are there of him being held to a different standard?This thread I guess.
Shades of this classic thread
Quote from: IanP on February 07, 2022, 02:42:51 pmQuote from: Ged on February 07, 2022, 01:53:40 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 01:38:14 pmQuote from: Teaboy on February 07, 2022, 12:52:26 pmthis is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?That has always been the first and last concern that people have about Franco. As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else. It's a good job he enjoys the attention, and an even better job that his ego isn't made of glass.What examples are there of him being held to a different standard?This thread I guess. Indeed, plenty of examples on this thread. As I've mentioned, people don't climb Vicious Streak as it was first done, likewise Tender Homecoming. Whaleback is the same. I could go on. Using a different sequence, or features that previously hadn't been used, and not mentioning it or a change in grade (if necessary) is entirely standard practice which nobody ever calls out.
As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else.
If Franco’s variation is different again and also easier then it’s another problem. Call it whatever he wants. If it’s the same grade then the description can just be changed to ‘can be climbed on the left or right’ as per lots of other guidebook descriptions. But Tom has already confirmed it’s easier than the overhanging line.
Quote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 03:20:57 pmQuote from: IanP on February 07, 2022, 02:42:51 pmQuote from: Ged on February 07, 2022, 01:53:40 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 01:38:14 pmQuote from: Teaboy on February 07, 2022, 12:52:26 pmthis is mostly a concern that Franco has cheated his way to a tick he’s not worthy of?That has always been the first and last concern that people have about Franco. As we've seen on this thread, he is consistently held to a different standard to everyone else. It's a good job he enjoys the attention, and an even better job that his ego isn't made of glass.What examples are there of him being held to a different standard?This thread I guess. Indeed, plenty of examples on this thread. As I've mentioned, people don't climb Vicious Streak as it was first done, likewise Tender Homecoming. Whaleback is the same. I could go on. Using a different sequence, or features that previously hadn't been used, and not mentioning it or a change in grade (if necessary) is entirely standard practice which nobody ever calls out.Do those people publish a grandly titled video shot with a drone, and extensive Instagram post complete with sponsor references?
Using a different sequence, or features that previously hadn't been used, and not mentioning it or a change in grade (if necessary) is entirely standard practice which nobody ever calls out.
If he'd just called it Prowed Wall 7c or whatever there would have been a few 'nice one's (prob even from Carlisle) and that'd be that. But where's the fun in that! He's obviously a narcissist but at least he creates some entertainment (clearly does it on purpose and revels in it).
Mark Katz did it using the crescent shape hold with his left and the arete with his right, but this relied on a good pebble which has now broken, so that version of the problem is defunct.
Tender Homecoming is now climbed via a harder but safer sequence, and with a boulder grade. Fair game, although maybe in hindsight Will Buck's 2nd(?) ascent should have been described as a 1st. This one has maybe passed us by.
Quote from: Will Hunt on February 07, 2022, 03:20:57 pmUsing a different sequence, or features that previously hadn't been used, and not mentioning it or a change in grade (if necessary) is entirely standard practice which nobody ever calls out.You're being very moronic with this statement. I assume it's deliberate. It ignores the entire debate about when a new sequence to the side of an existing problem becomes a new line. Which is what the whole fuckin' thread is about.
If someone climbs something (and whether it is nationally significant/rarely repeated is irrelevant) in a way that significantly deviates from the logical line/included features then they should either: a) say that it's a variant or eliminate or whatever
Unless you're at an eliminates venue, we should generally climb lines, not prescribed sequences. If there are any features which are out then this should be obvious and logical.
So let me get this straight, you agree with the consensus of the thread in almost every way possible... but you don't see enough people calling out punters at your local crags for dodgy shit so you thought you'd extrapolate that to dodgy shit being "entirely standard practice which nobody ever calls out".