[reeve]

Hi everyone,

This year's Stanage Forum Open Meeting is on 2-4pm on Saturday (tomorrow) 26th October at the Hathersage Methodist Hall. Last year there was a great showing of climbers (clearly outnumbering any other group) which I think gives a real voice to climbers when it comes to the management of the North Lees Estate.

For anyone who is unaware of the way that the North Lees Estate (i.e. all of Stanage and surrounding moorland) is managed, the Stanage Forum is comprised of all relevant stakeholders (that is, climbers, local residents, land owners, Peak District National Park, other recreational groups, farmers etc.). The Forum is used as a way of making decisions and recommendations to the National Park and has been successful at reducing conflict between the different groups, although to be fair it is still an ongoing battle to have the estate prioritised by the PDNP in ways that would benefit all user groups. The Forum meets about 8 times through the year and has BMC access reps Louise, Adam, and myself involved. Saturday is the Open Meeting - where members of the public are welcome to come and see what has happened over the past year and what is in the offing for the next 12 months.

I can't promise that the meeting will be thrilling, and I appreciate that last year there was a lot of frustration (quite reasonably so) at how thin the management plan was that was presented by the PDNP. This is exactly why a good representation by climbers demonstrates that we are an informed and engaged group, which lends pressure and legitimacy to decision making at the Forum meetings.

Whilst I have not made any promise to wear a pinny, there will be tea and cake, information on the ring ouzels and ecology work, and the opportunity to raise questions and concerns. Plus it's going to rain so what else will you be doing? 

[reeve]

Oh and as an extra thought, we will have three seats spare in the car if you want a lift from Sheffield (near the Works). We'll be going an hour early but you can always wander around Outside and Alpkit for a bit!

[Offwidth]

Hope the meeting went well... at Banff festival with Lynn otherwise we would have been there.

[cheque]

It was OK. In contrast to last year there were lots of people from the National Park there. The first to speak and, as far as I could tell the most important, was a guy called Andy McCloy who gave a strange and surprisingly poorly-delivered (in my opinion) speech, the gist of which was that it goes without saying how important Stanage/ North Lees is and that the Park promises to look after it but requires a to do something in return- that something was saved for right at the end of the speech and turned out to be being prepared to have “adult conversations” (terrible choice of words in my opinion, guaranteed to get people’s backs up in any context) about things like parking charges.

He didn’t initiate any such conversations though, but did underline the financial pressures the Peak and all other National Parks are under which is fair enough ‘cos they are.

Other Park people spoke about conservation, their aims, etc. It was all very agreeable and these people were all much better speakers. Usual updates on Ring Ouzels, the heritage society etc. which were interesting. The farmer of the Stanage/ Burbage area introduced himself too- seems like a nice reasonable bloke.

Henry was the only person who had any AOB (apart from John Horscroft talking about the proposed Lady Cannings MTB track- the only time there was anything like acrimony in the meeting, directed at bikers who ride where they shouldn’t)  and he impressed upon the Park people the importance of the forum as a selling point when trying to bid for grants etc.

Nothing specifically about climbing in the whole meeting, no real info about future plans or anything, pretty dull really.

[highrepute]

Thanks Mike.

Out of interest. Do pdnp have anything to say about the new parking enforcement and whether it is pricing successful or otherwise?

[cheque]

Nope, no mention of parking apart from what I mentioned above. I think the relative lack of climbers (I think 10 of us at the most, none of whom apart from Henry could really be called firebrands) meant that there was a lack of awkward questions too.

[shark]

It was OK. In contrast to last year there were lots of people from the National Park there. The first to speak and, as far as I could tell the most important, was a guy called Andy McCloy who gave a strange and surprisingly poorly-delivered (in my opinion) speech, the gist of which was that it goes without saying how important Stanage/ North Lees is and that the Park promises to look after it but requires a to do something in return- that something was saved for right at the end of the speech and turned out to be being prepared to have “adult conversations” (terrible choice of words in my opinion, guaranteed to get people’s backs up in any context) about things like parking charges.

 

I have very little sympathy with problems that are largely of their own making.

The ‘adult conversation’ I’d like to have is why they persist in clinging on to control of Stanage/North Lees when a consortium of other bodies or an independent trust could make a much better job of it.

The PDNPA are stuck in the past in their thinking, lack the imagination to creatively find solutions to their funding problems  and tied up in knots with their Governance.

They are clinging to a fantasy that Stanage could be a money spinner from the physical assets: farm, car park, campsite and dilapidated buildings North Lees Hall (smaller than it sounds) barn and cottage. Most of these assets could be better labelled liabilities with the amount of £work required.

Stanage/North Lees doesn’t need to be managed by the PDNPA. They are not doing ‘us’ a favour but their comms make it sound like they believe they are.

IMO it would be better off managed by a consortium of better funded and interested organisations ( perhaps including the BMC and Stanage Forum) or by a purpose created independent charitable trust with a defined charitable purpose and a modern approach to monetising the intangible assets.

[danm]

^^A Tl:dr for the above: sell it to Shark Student Housing Corp Holdings Ltd. for a 1 fuck all to be turned into student digs with  a good view and their own climbing wall.

[JR]

Thanks for your efforts Reeve (and those others that went).

Do pdnp have anything to say about the new parking enforcement and whether it is pricing successful or otherwise?

c. 25-30% of the cars in the car park on Sunday had tickets when we left around 4:30pm (including, I suspect, some of this parish). Admittedly, we parked on the road, but only because between the 3 of us we had no physical cash to pay, and didn't want to take the risk on getting a ticket.

Aside from the level of cost of parking which is another part of the issue, we'd have paid (and I think some of those with tickets would have), if there was pay by phone on the machine, as is largely omnipresent on most car parks now.

Charges, excessive or otherwise, only work if people can easily pay.

[mrjonathanr]

Did you not get a ticket for parking on the verge then? I thought that section was a freeway?

[JR]

Did you not get a ticket for parking on the verge then? I thought that section was a freeway?

It wasn’t my car, but not that I’m aware of, nor did it appear the very many other (approx equal numbers to those in the car park) cars did. I imagine the person ticketing in the car park wouldn’t have the authority to ticket those on the verge (though happy to be told otherwise.)

[mrjonathanr]

I imagine the person ticketing in the car park wouldn’t have the authority to ticket those on the verge (though happy to be told otherwise.)

Good point.