[Danny]

I would love to get a pair of Instinct VSRs in size 45, but it looks like Scarpa only do them to 44. Annoys the shit out of me. I've got a pair of VSs which are great, but I've never liked the midsole/rubber. For some reason the Booster Ss in 45 really squish my little toes. So, Dragos. Does anyone have a pair? Are they a close approximation of the VS fit, or narrower?  Also, if they're *ridiculously* soft I've no interest.

[tomtom]

The VSR's stretch quite a lot - I've a pair in the same size I take instinct slippers (41) and they seem fine out of the box. I'm 41.5 in instinct vs. So you may get the 44's to work... tried any on?

[Andy F]

I've got Dragos and VS's. The Dragos are much softer and don't feel any narrower to me. I have them in the same size and the VS feel tighter. I could have gone down half a size in the Drago, probably will for my next pair.

Sorry, just realised I was talking about the Furia, not the Drago. I've tried the Drago, too soft for my liking.

[remus]

What tomtom said about downsizing with the VSRs.

If you're not after something soft Id give the dragos a miss. They're about as stiff as wet tissue paper, and in a size 45 youd be better off with some rubber paint straight to the feet. Also I find the dragos a little narrow, though that might be because I downsized quite a bit in the hope of getting a modicum of support.

[Danny]

Hmm, tempted with the 44s given the advice. But I live miles from any climbing shop. Might do the nana fingers thing and risk the return. My definition of soft is the Styx—which I really got on with in 45s, but again the revamped version was only available to 44. Wankpot. Cheers all for the advice.

[mrjonathanr]

Resole your VS 45s in 3.5mm Grip 2. That is basically a VSR

[tomtom]

Resole your VS 45s in 3.5mm Grip 2. That is basically a VSR

this ^^

[Danny]

Resole your VS 45s in 3.5mm Grip 2. That is basically a VSR

this ^^

Hadn't thought of that. Great idea.

[moose]

Torquil at Llanberis resoles has done that for a couple of my pairs of Miura VSs.  Very happy with the results (used them for all my harder stuff at Malham and Kilnsey last year - I am a lightweight so the slight loss of stiffness not a problem).

[cha1n]

I had my VS resoled with XS Grip 2 by Llanberis and didn't notice any difference in stiffness. They were still much stiffer than I'd have liked them but I mainly had them resoled because I went through the toe on one shoe prematurely due to sieging a route with a sharp foothold. What I'm saying is, if I'd gotten them resoled specifically for the purpose of getting softer shoes I'd have been disappointed.

I wonder if Scarpa have missed a trick here as most of their performance shoes are quite narrow fitting and if they'd made a softer shoe with the instinct fit I'd be using them instead of the La Sportiva Skwama I'm using instead. I know some might say that the instinct slipper could fit this role but I find them quite different to the VS, plus the sole is full-length, the heel is pants (shallow, not full rubber coverage) and the toe rubber patch is less durable. I've tried on the drago, furia and booster s and think they're all narrower. The Stix is probably the closest they've got.

[mrjonathanr]

What thickness Grip 2 did you choose? 4mm is stiffer than 3.5mm... BTW great job on mine by Torquill, recommend him.

[cha1n]

Could well have been the thicker stuff, I don't think I specified a preference either way. I was happy to have more rubber though as I mainly use them for indoors now.

[moose]

My Miura VSs went from 4mm XSEdge to 3.5mm XSGrip2 which probably explains the slight loss of stiffness (that and the midsole just getting more broken up in use).   Not a problem for me - increase in feel for smears feel better indoors and on grit.

[Drew]

Danny, I say this as your friend: don't buy Dragos. If you want something a lot softer than a VS try the Chimera (slightly more midsole than the Drago plus laces), but the Drago would be like rubber socks on your feet.

If you want something slightly softer than the VS, then get them resoled in 3.5mm Grip 2.

Be glad the VSR goes all the way to 44. There was talk of doing it up to 42 like it was a women's version. I feel I have a hand in increasing the range to 44.

[tomtom]

Having used the VSR's in anger yesterday for the first time - I think they are an amazing all round grit shoe.. like the Anasazi velcro, they're stiff enough - but soft enough (and with a fairly good heel..)..

[Bonjoy]

I'm on my second pair of Dragos. They are very soft, for the majority of bouldering I've found this a plus point rather than a problem. Have never had a stickier shoe on smears and they're great on heel and toe hooks. They'd be shit for routes I guess. If you buy a range of shoes and interchange according to need then I'd say these are 'best in class' for what they do and well worth a punt, but don't bother if you're after an all-rounder shoe.

[dave]

Drago? What they bringing out next, Anasaz and a Moccasy?

[mrjonathanr]

Geni

[36chambers]

I'm on my second pair of Dragos. They are very soft, for the majority of bouldering I've found this a plus point rather than a problem. Have never had a stickier shoe on smears and they're great on heel and toe hooks. They'd be shit for routes I guess. If you buy a range of shoes and interchange according to need then I'd say these are 'best in class' for what they do and well worth a punt, but don't bother if you're after an all-rounder shoe.

Agreed.

I'm currently a 4 pair of shoes at the crag kind of guy, and dragos rank in 3rd place for importance. If I ever get round to downsizing they may become my official "send shoe". They made Secret Seventh at Caley feel so easy that I almost felt like I was cheating.

[Danny]

Danny, I say this as your friend: don't buy Dragos. If you want something a lot softer than a VS try the Chimera (slightly more midsole than the Drago plus laces), but the Drago would be like rubber socks on your feet.

If you want something slightly softer than the VS, then get them resoled in 3.5mm Grip 2.

Be glad the VSR goes all the way to 44. There was talk of doing it up to 42 like it was a women's version. I feel I have a hand in increasing the range to 44.

Imbeciles at Scarpa HQ. 44 is hardly bigfoot territory. And I've never really bought the bigger peeps need harder rubber line: depends on what you're climbing.

As it stands I'm not glad, since 44 is as useful to me as 34. If the Chimera is narrower I'll give it a miss regardless of size and go for the resole, which has the added bonus of being far cheaper.

[Drew]

Imbeciles at Scarpa HQ. 44 is hardly bigfoot territory. And I've never really bought the bigger peeps need harder rubber line: depends on what you're climbing.

As it stands I'm not glad, since 44 is as useful to me as 34. If the Chimera is narrower I'll give it a miss regardless of size and go for the resole, which has the added bonus of being far cheaper.

Personally I think it would decrease the durability for the bigger (thus heavier) folk. I'm around 82kg these days (fat bastard) and if I climbed a lot I'd probably get 4-5 months before they were totally worn out.

I've not got any Chimeras yet, but they should be very similar to the Drago, i.e. pointier in the toe box.

[SA Chris]

Drago? What they bringing out next, Anasaz and a Moccasy?

I'm looking forward to them releasing the Nacho Libres (in the appropriate colours).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drago_(wrestler)

[Danny]

Imbeciles at Scarpa HQ. 44 is hardly bigfoot territory. And I've never really bought the bigger peeps need harder rubber line: depends on what you're climbing.

As it stands I'm not glad, since 44 is as useful to me as 34. If the Chimera is narrower I'll give it a miss regardless of size and go for the resole, which has the added bonus of being far cheaper.

Personally I think it would decrease the durability for the bigger (thus heavier) folk. I'm around 82kg these days (fat bastard) and if I climbed a lot I'd probably get 4-5 months before they were totally worn out.

I've not got any Chimeras yet, but they should be very similar to the Drago, i.e. pointier in the toe box.

Yet isn't that exactly the trade-off that all (non-fat) climbers are being sold with the condoms-on-feet performance shoes? Aren't us fatties (I'm usually ~80kg) with fat feet entitled to a piece of the action?

[weakdave]

And what about thin people with clown feet!?!??

[T_B]

I'm 80+Kg and wear a size 44 Booster S (just sent them off for 2nd re-sole) and a size 43 VS (tight). I take a 45 in most other (non rock) shoes.

I'd go for a re-sole. Tried some Dragos and they felt well pointy, much more so than Booster S.

The build quality of Scarpas is so good I'm amazed they can afford to keep Drew et al employed