Quote from: JohnM on January 15, 2016, 08:53:19 pmSo for a climber aspiring to climb in the mid 8s say what would an example of training the end zone be for example?If you're redpointing 8b+, then it's volume training at around 6b-7a and interval style short block training at around 8a. Those grades somewhat depend on how many years you've training, how good your baseline of endurance is etc etc.
So for a climber aspiring to climb in the mid 8s say what would an example of training the end zone be for example?
I doubt there'll be a "one size fits all" answer to this, but how rigid do you advise writing a training plan? Should you know how many sets you should be aiming to do a few weeks in advance?Also, do you have any reccommended reading for a climber interested in how muscles adapt to training? I know that my body is on the fairly extreme end of being suited towards long "plodding" activities and it would be cool to know how to go about changing this (developing more fast twitch fibres?).Cheers Tomp.s. The fact that I don't need an excuse to be on UKB on a Friday night after exams says something about my life these days...
Great question. if the above is a true summary - i.e. the adaptation time is the plateau time - does the 80/20 pareto rule apply to these periods - so you would get 80% of the response in 20% of the time?
I've got a few, mainly on behalf of my better-half (N.B. - at her behest):So, last year wasn't a bad one for her given she did her first F7b (Sticky Wicket), quickly followed by her second (Ground Effect) and she then nipped in on the eleventh hour to rumble up Slab Culture (first 7b+). Definitely struggles with the bouldery-side of things at Kilnsey (i.e. usually the starts, and more generally) but when redpointing it'll take a reasonably long time (these were ~10 sessions I think) with her getting up to the 'red-point crux' and falling off before one time everything just works (this is usually followed by falling off the finishing jug for good measure before an actual ascent). In my mind there's three things going wrong there (if we ignore the punting the top part) - general strength, aerobic capacity (arriving more pumped than necessary due to working anaerobically) and/or anaerobic capacity (linking continuously difficult moves together), am I even vaguely correct?
Assuming I can ask a question now and it will be answered on Friday...I have a Euro trip coming up in three months. My loose plan is;January - Weight loss and general conditioning (Pilates, weights, diet)February - Finger boarding (probably CWB/Max Hangs)March - Climbing lots, aiming to stay uninjuredThroughout - Try and fish a bit less and climb more...Does this sound like a reasonable plan (bearing in mind I have a very busy job/lifestyle and the weather is shit)?I appreciate the limitations of the question and the format of this Q&A session therefore, just some general advice about arriving in France in April in decent condition would be appreciated! Thanks
Hola Tom. Does adaptation time refer to the point after which gains plateau, or begin to be retained? From http://www.brianmac.co.uk/energy.htm"Anaerobic Capacity refers to the body's ability to regenerate ATP using the glycolytic system and Anaerobic Power refers to the body's ability to regenerate ATP using the phosphagen system. "(The times given for use of the respective systems are (from beginning exertion ) Anpower the first 1-4 seconds and Ancap 4-6).Do the terms Aeropower and Aerocap similarly refer to the lactate and glycolytic/O2 systems of energy production respectively? I haven't seen them in non climbing literature.I am asking this quite abstract question because it seems that the best way forward might well be be trial and error once I've grasped clearly how the different systems contribute energy ...Thanks for your time!Jon
Quote from: Tommy on January 15, 2016, 08:58:15 pmQuote from: JohnM on January 15, 2016, 08:53:19 pmSo for a climber aspiring to climb in the mid 8s say what would an example of training the end zone be for example?If you're redpointing 8b+, then it's volume training at around 6b-7a and interval style short block training at around 8a. Those grades somewhat depend on how many years you've training, how good your baseline of endurance is etc etc.Depend on how long it took that person to redoing the 7b+. If they took 5-10 goes then yes 6a would be fine. If it took them 203 goes then 6a+/6b might be more on the money. BUT..... it all depends on how good their baseline fitness is! That's why when you read anything about training and try and apply it to yourself, don't blindly follow the numbers. If it all feels wrong, then change it, or get reading/asking questions. Bottom line in this case is that you do NOT want to be pumped. Hope that helps!So the 7b+ redpointer should be looking at 6a volume at the very maximum...?
Hope that helps!
Quote from: Luke Owens on January 15, 2016, 08:58:28 pmCheers Tom, I guess I fall into catagory 1, I can recover pretty well on rests and climb with a pump so aerobicly I guess I'm OK. I seem to power out 6 moves into both of my projects so must be just relying on my anerobic system which fails early on. I've already been working AnCap lately as part of my plan. By working the Aerobic system in conjuction would that include AeroPow as well as AeroCap?CheersOk, so this is a classic mistake people make. Just because you can recover at a jug doesn't mean you have good aerobic capacity (sorry!). Far from it. It's a part of the equation, but when you;re resting on a jug we're not seeing how your muscle produces ATP aerobically... it's not an indiction of the efficiency of that system exactly. And no, just work aerocap for this I would say.
Cheers Tom, I guess I fall into catagory 1, I can recover pretty well on rests and climb with a pump so aerobicly I guess I'm OK. I seem to power out 6 moves into both of my projects so must be just relying on my anerobic system which fails early on. I've already been working AnCap lately as part of my plan. By working the Aerobic system in conjuction would that include AeroPow as well as AeroCap?Cheers
Thanks..so that terminology would make lactate/pyruvate an energy system for Ancap?(the site I quoted gives 4 minutes as the limit for lactate produced energy.)
Right, my forearms as dying and my social life has gone :-) One more question!.... what do ya wanna know?
Quote from: Tommy on January 15, 2016, 09:49:58 pmRight, my forearms as dying and my social life has gone :-) One more question!.... what do ya wanna know?Tom, I'm in the curry house. Madras or Dopiaza?
Ok, so this is a classic mistake people make. Just because you can recover at a jug doesn't mean you have good aerobic capacity (sorry!). Far from it. It's a part of the equation, but when you;re resting on a jug we're not seeing how your muscle produces ATP aerobically... it's not an indiction of the efficiency of that system exactly. And no, just work aerocap for this I would say.
You would just train aerocap for someone powering out on left wall?
Quote from: Rocksteady on January 14, 2016, 02:01:13 pmTom, I had a question on the adaptation times for different energy systems. My interpretation of the Binney material was this:Ancap: 16 week adaptation timeAerocap: 8+ week adaptation timeAnpow: 4-6 week adaptation timeAerocap: 6 week adaptation timeIs this right? Is there any point including eg. ancap in your training if you aren't going to stay the course for 16 consistent weeks?Yup, there's always benefits! You might not reach your own peak in each in a shorter period, but you will almost certainly achieve some adaptation. What's also not to be underrated is that you'll learn a lot. In those first few years of self experimentation wit training and different sessions I learnt absolutely loads about intensities, what rest I needed, what didn't work that said it would in text books, what things I had to do less of for me personally. Yeah go for it - you're bound to learn a load with your eyes open :-)
Tom, I had a question on the adaptation times for different energy systems. My interpretation of the Binney material was this:Ancap: 16 week adaptation timeAerocap: 8+ week adaptation timeAnpow: 4-6 week adaptation timeAerocap: 6 week adaptation timeIs this right? Is there any point including eg. ancap in your training if you aren't going to stay the course for 16 consistent weeks?