[DAVETHOMAS90]

In case people haven't seen this:

A friend of mine, Steve "the (one and only) Pro" sent me a link to this list, which attempts (and probably does a pretty good job of) collating details of which climbers have ticked 9a or above, as either route or "boulder".

http://escalade9.wifeo.com/

I think it makes for great reading, and, for me, raises a lot of questions. There are loads of links to interviews, video etc. One question that has come up is, can we legitimately equate boulder traverses @9a to routes of the same grade? I'm not disputing it, but I think it warrants some thought.

I thought it was funny to see Parisella's referred to as Grotte de Parisella. Quality grot mind you!

Dave.

[Will Hunt]

I see that Rich Simpson is on there...
 

[a dense loner]

No you can't equate them, if you're not clipping a rope you're not doing a route. However if you're traversing and clipping a rope you're also not doing a route. But if you're soloing then you're doing a route. God my heads starting to hurt 

[36chambers]

God my heads starting to hurt 

Stop banging it against the wall then.


As far as I'm concerned if you fall off because you're pumped then you're doing a route.

[dave]

I'm with the shrunken headed one on this. Traverses and "boulders" are not routes.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Do we have a different interpretation/use of the word "route", as opposed to "way" in French (voie).

The site is really about the 9th grade, so in that context, is it relevant to distinguish between "routes" and "boulders" in the way that we do?

Is it meaningful to distinguish between them? To work a route like Overshadow at Malham, I'd probably need a high level of strength/fitness/ability just to be able to cope with the logistics of getting on the route at all. Finest Pedigree - the traverse in Cheedale - is something that anyone can get on at any time of day or night, armed with no more than boots and chalkbag, possibly a good book and butties.

On the other hand, Hubble is hardly an inconvenient proposition, although you probably still need a belayer.

With the advent of score cards, and the emphasis on number, a route may simply become a less convenient way of ticking the grade.?

On a different note, the "Obsession" video - link via Richard Simpson, under Action Direct - is still a very inspiring training video!

[ashtond6]

Personally I think you can get 9a on a traverse,  the physical difficulty has been achieved once its done
I don't expect everyone to feel that way though, just for me personally!

[T_B]

This is quite an interesting question. I don't see how you can separate the 'logistical issues', or the 'psychological issues' surrounding climbing things from the simple "are you strong / fit enough". It's one of the reasons that specific routes are popular e.g. easy access / dry quickly/doesn't seep / lots of beta / you mate's done it. Look at Mecca Extension, for example. So, it's probably a lot 'easier' to do a boulder problem traverse than to e.g. travel a long way / find a belayer / work out beta / get the route in good condition etc. Route climbing is not just about wearing a harness and trailing a rope, it's a much bigger commitment all round.

[Oldmanmatt]

So, if the traverse is 200mtrs above the ground and 6, 50mtr long pitches in length and of 9a difficulty; it's not a route?
Because it goes sideways?

So, how many 9a's need to be excluded from the list because one or more crux moves go sideways?

Shit's sake. Climbing is so full of "grey areas" it's more murky than a Government defence contract with Saudi.
There is no "line", it comes down to majority consensus on a route (sic) by route basis.

When does a Highball become a Solo?

When it's truly shit scary to fall off.


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[Doylo]

This is quite an interesting question. I don't see how you can separate the 'logistical issues', or the 'psychological issues' surrounding climbing things from the simple "are you strong / fit enough". It's one of the reasons that specific routes are popular e.g. easy access / dry quickly/doesn't seep / lots of beta / you mate's done it. Look at Mecca Extension, for example. So, it's probably a lot 'easier' to do a boulder problem traverse than to e.g. travel a long way / find a belayer / work out beta / get the route in good condition etc. Route climbing is not just about wearing a harness and trailing a rope, it's a much bigger commitment all round.

Yep. The difficulty of the climbing might be similar  but things get a fuck load harder when you stick a rope on. I'm going through this right now.

[Ally Smith]

Yep. The difficulty of the climbing might be similar  but things get a fuck load harder when you stick a rope on. I'm going through this right now.

Surely that roof is low enough and you own enough pads to just solo it; thus be done with any mental blocks?!

[Doylo]

Yep. The difficulty of the climbing might be similar  but things get a fuck load harder when you stick a rope on. I'm going through this right now.

Surely that roof is low enough and you own enough pads to just solo it; thus be done with any mental blocks?!

Maybe with a bouncy castle and a man on stilts to give you a leg up so you can try the moves.

[abarro81]

They miss a few ascents and get the odd bit of info wrong but it's an impressively good list overall

can we legitimately equate boulder traverses @9a to routes of the same grade?

We can't really equate them to routes, but then neither can we really equate them to normal boulder problems.... so who knows. Typically boulder travs are harder physically for their given grade in order to make up for the fact that they're easy to work.


OMM - you misunderstood, this is talking about ground level traverses, not travery routes.

[Doylo]

Of course a traversy route is a route. What the fuck else is it? Ever heard of a girdle

[Oldmanmatt]

They miss a few ascents and get the odd bit of info wrong but it's an impressively good list overall

can we legitimately equate boulder traverses @9a to routes of the same grade?

We can't really equate them to routes, but then neither can we really equate them to normal boulder problems.... so who knows. Typically boulder travs are harder physically for their given grade in order to make up for the fact that they're easy to work.


OMM - you misunderstood, this is talking about ground level traverses, not travery routes.

I was thinking of Dense's "If you're traversing and clipping a rope you're still not doing a route" comment.


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[Muenchener]

Yeah, so Dawn Wall is right out. Heilige Gral looks pretty sideways on that Adam Ondra video too. 

[Doylo]

They miss a few ascents and get the odd bit of info wrong but it's an impressively good list overall

can we legitimately equate boulder traverses @9a to routes of the same grade?

We can't really equate them to routes, but then neither can we really equate them to normal boulder problems.... so who knows. Typically boulder travs are harder physically for their given grade in order to make up for the fact that they're easy to work.


OMM - you misunderstood, this is talking about ground level traverses, not travery routes.

I was thinking of Dense's "If you're traversing and clipping a rope you're still not doing a route" comment.


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Just ignore him 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

They miss a few ascents and get the odd bit of info wrong but it's an impressively good list overall

We can't really equate them to routes, but then neither can we really equate them to normal boulder problems.... so who knows. Typically boulder travs are harder physically for their given grade in order to make up for the fact that they're easy to work.

Thanks Mr. Barrows, that's what I was wondering. Do you think that's a well established trend? We could equate routes/boulders simply on grounds of difficulty, if that's the case (avoiding the other sometimes more obvious distinctions).

[T_B]

I got the impression recently from Ryan P that Staminaband/PUTP would be pretty hard at F8c+ if it were a route (route grade sometimes given).

Put it this way. I suspect PUTPBand (which I've spent a few sessions on) is F8c being F7B+ if you're tall into hard F7C+ (just the one 'easy' move up from PBand adds somewhat).

Staminaband/PUTP is Font 7C+ sans last move into hard Font 7C+

Compare that to (so I've heard) Mecca being Font 7B+ into Font 7B+, with a better rest.  And F8b+ apparently.

Soz, bit geeky

[Doylo]

I thought Mecca was 7C into the groove then 7A+. Anything into PUTP is nails as you're having to do a hard 7C+ after some other climbing. In Heaven in the Cave is 7C+ at the start (if you do it the mans way  ) into a long 7C+ and that's probably 8c. Bit easier if you traverse the back wall. Like Barrows says shit close to the ground often is slightly harder moves/sustainedness wise but they're still easier to do.

[petejh]

Games climbers play:

Sport Routes
Boulders
Boulder Traverses (?)
Trad routes
Alpine Climbs
Ice Climbs
Mixed Climbs (drytool routes a subdivision of)
Aid Climbs
Twitter

[Doylo]

Games climbers play:

Sport Routes
Boulders
Boulder Traverses (?)
Trad routes
Alpine Climbs
Ice Climbs
Mixed Climbs (drytool routes a subdivision of)
Aid Climbs
Twitter
Nicking quickdraws

[cowboyhat]

Staminaband/PUTP is Font 7C+ sans last move into hard Font 7C+

Soz, bit geeky

Hard Font 7c+, you mean 8a?

Go on just say PUTP is 8a, I'll back you up.

I like this list, its interesting to see what the Euros etc are up to, recognizing names etc. And the bottom line is that even after twenty five years 9a is still the standard.


Also, I wonder if any other countries, are therew any other names on the list that compare to our white elephant Rich Simpson.

[abarro81]

SB into PUTP was originally 9a then downgraded wasn't it?

Mecca I would say 7C into 7A. Powerband I'd say 7B to the good hold but PUTP is about 9B+

[Doylo]

SB into PUTP was originally 9a then downgraded wasn't it?

Mecca I would say 7C into 7A. Powerband I'd say 7B to the good hold but PUTP is about 9B+

It was 9a in One Summer.