[Will Hunt]

I had been gravitating towards the DMM ones. Spectre 2 or Phantom or whatnot. Mainly because they're nice and light and they do a cheap "trad pack" where you get a few different lengths.

For a short period, the opportunity has arisen to buy some cheapy cheap Edelrid ones which made me look at theirs. There doesn't seem to be a lot of choice but I am a sucker for a bargain. The only viable option seems to be the 18cm flavour of these:
http://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/carabiners-quickdraws/nineteen-g-set-night.html

Anybody used these? They're doubtlessly very light but I have a couple of concerns:

1. Will they simply be too fiddly diddly? Bear in mind that I don't do winter so wearing gloves during use is not an issue.
2. When racked against conventionally sized krabs, will they twist inside their larger neighbours?

[cheque]

Those Edelrid ones really are tiny. I use Phantoms without issue (I know a lot of people think they're not big enough) but when I fiddled with some of the Edelrids they seemed too small.

[Muenchener]

Forget it

Have you actually held one in your hand? They are tiny. Much, much smaller than Phantoms. I bought a couple as novelty items but I wouldn't use them for much except carrying my nut key & prusiks.




Left to right: Spectre II, Phantom screwgate, 19G. Notice how the Phantom is barely perceptibly smaller than the Spectre, and the 19G is half the size.



Again, with a calibrated standard Climber's Hand for comparison

[duncan]

I draw the line between the DMM Phantom (handle well) and Camp 23 Nano (too small for me). Others find Nanos perfectly acceptable, you'll have to have a play with different types. The Edelrids are smaller than the Nanos and would be a non-starter for trad. draws for me.

The Edelrids are very well-finished. Are they another example of DMM as the OEM? I might get a couple for auxiliary tasks where you might otherwise use a toy carabiner - carrying a windproof on the harness. They could be employed if you ran out of gear but would still be full strength.

[Muenchener]

I might get a couple for auxiliary tasks where you might otherwise use a toy carabiner - carrying a windproof on the harness. They could be employed if you ran out of gear but would still be full strength.

Exactly. They have a niche there, but definitely not as a standard working karabiner

[Will Hunt]

Perfect beta, thanks folks. Just asking as I can buy some edelrid kit at trade price but need to order soon. Never seen the things in the flesh so needed opinions from those who had.

[petejh]

The (relatively) new alpha lite are v.good. I've a rack of these and used them last summer and winter, no issues with handling, very light and seem to be more robust than their predecessor phantoms.

My previous rack of phantoms fell to pieces within 12 months - the annodising was rubbish and flaked off. Lots of people I know have experienced the same. Wouldn't recommend them.

[Potash]

I'm swapping my rack over to the 19G as they are great.

I bought a few as a test prior to going to Patagonia, I figured they might get used on some nice sunny rock.

They got used in all conditions and using gloves etc and worked fine. No problems with the size really.

I think the perception of size is clouding people's minds.

[slackline]

I think the perception of size is clouding people's minds.

Maybe some people just have big hands

[Will Hunt]

I'm swapping my rack over to the 19G as they are great.

I bought a few as a test prior to going to Patagonia, I figured they might get used on some nice sunny rock.

They got used in all conditions and using gloves etc and worked fine. No problems with the size really.

I think the perception of size is clouding people's minds.

By your username I'd say you were Dave Warbs. Warbs hasnae been to Patagonia. Who are you? The NOC list needs to know.

[andy_e]

I'll give you a clue Will, search for recent blog posts about Patagonia.

[horn]

If you can get them at a good price, then Edelrid nineteenG's are the one to get for big trad racks. They're so much lighter than everything else, and the small size is not really a problem unless you're a total clutz with no fine motor control. I've not seen anyone with bigger hands than mine, and I have no issues with them.

I still use a slightly larger krab for winter climbing, mostly phantoms at the mo with a few random old larger ones, but I think that's because my hands are so big I can't get gloves to fit properly.
review here: http://www.outside.co.uk/latest/reviews/Nineteen-G