[rainbow]

Start at the far left of the bloc (the rail where Witness the Churnetness finishes) follow the line of pockets above Witness using heal hooks to finish up The Victim. The crux is at the end getting from the pockets to The Victim finish.
mark croxall 27/Apr/2015

[Bonjoy]

Good work. Shame the old 7a Cold N Delicious is now banned as it would be the logical start to this line and was really good climbing.
The 7b+ grade on this does rather back up the idea that WtC is not 8a. The end bit of the new prob is the new beta on Burly McMirfy after it leaves Mirf’s Roof and is about 7b in itself. The maths don’t add up. Does anyone even think WtC is 8a, other than aspirant first-8a-ists?

[rainbow]

From what I can gather this new prob traverses right above witness, so into the pockets of Joinery to the centre etc, then the rails, then the slopey pod on Mirfs to stretch across into the finish of Victim/Burly McMirfy. Not sure if you can use holds on top of the block or is it strict use of the holds below. Apparently Mark’s got it on vid so I’ll see if we can see it. This means you don’t do the hard moves of Burly McMirfy. As for the grade of WTC, I bumped into a friend of yours, (sorry can’t remember his name) whilst he was working repeating/Burly McMirfy, we chewed the fat about the grade and he said that as a climber you are far stronger at endurance type problems rather than raw power thus it might feel very soft at 8a. My concern with it going in a 7c+ was that for all the extra moves you do on WTC, the start moves followed by the bulk of Mirfs, then the traverse along the lip to the harrowing mantle to top out you would only get + added on to the grade. When you compare the two problems WTC is not just a bit harder, but quite a lot. Discussed it with two others who have repeated the two problems and if WTC is 7c+, then Mirfs would be 7b+, and from what others have said Mirfs seems bang on at 7c. We did toy with the idea of sticking it in text as a soft 8a, but we thought that would get more people trying it who wanted the grade and not the line or moves. The grades in the guide are by no means perfect, so many new problems only done by a handful of people and quite a lot unrepeated. One thing I have tried so hard to get right is the consistency, so an old 7a+, feels the same as a new one etc. It’s so hard to do. Maybe it should have gone in as 7c+, only time will tell with more repeats.

[monkey boy]

For me it felt more like a route; therefore if you are, even a little, route fit you will probably do it fairly easily and think it's easier than 8a. I flashed Mirfs but WtC took 2 or 3 (I can't remember) sessions. I think low 8 seems appropriate if Mirfs is staying at 7c. If Mirfs is 7b+ then WtC would probably be 7c+.

If you are over fit and strong for a problem you will find it easy for the grade.
If you are fit but not strong you will find short power problems hard for the grade and longer ones probably not too bad.
If you are strong but not fit then power problems will probably feel fine, where as longer ones will feel nails.

[andy_e]

What if you're weak and unfit?

[abarro81]

Mirf's I thought defo 7c. Didn't do WtC. They'll both only get harder as the footholds on the back wall disintegrate

[monkey boy]

What if you're weak and unfit?

Everything is easy!

[monkey boy]

Mirf's I thought defo 7c. Didn't do WtC. They'll both only get harder as the footholds on the back wall disintegrate

Hang on... You're weak and fit, you must have got the names mixed up of the problems you did

[measles23]

Why is Cold'n'delicious banned??

[rainbow]

Thanks guys, regarding the grades.

Why is Cold'n'delicious banned??

Its banned because of a site specific bryophyte (moss) was found on that side of the block when the independent survey was conducted in April last year. Thirty different types of mosses were found most low risk, and one very rare one, high above the bouldering at Gents, which is why there is to be no absolutely no topping out of any of the routes.
The moss on cold ‘n’ delicious doesn’t make sense to me now. When the survey was carried out all the tree cover was still present making that side very damp and I guess a perfect growing environment. Now the tree cover has been reduced its loads dryer and will be continue to dry out even more this year as the FC has removed the rhoddy directly above giving it no shade at all. All that direct sunlight seems to be killing it rather than protecting it. Give it another month and I might email the Natural England to see if we can climb on it after all. If we could it would open it up to a great long problem. Cold ‘n’ delicious, into the reverse Witness, crux of Burly McMirfy to finish reversing The Victim.

[Bonjoy]

I had the same thought re the moss. If you could get a bryophyte expert to take a look prior to contacting NE it would no doubt speed things along as I doubt they would act without expert advice and I’d guess they are unlikely to commission this themselves for our benefit  when a recent study has been done.
We had a play on the start of the new link and for some reason it seems easier to traverse high on the pockets rather than low on the break, whereas the opposite is true on WtC  . It would be a shame to turn either into a an eliminate by saying you must take a specific height line in either direction. I assumed you’d be forced down to the break before joining BMcM but could be totally wrong on that, if you can stay high then I guess you do miss some tricky moves on Burly.
Fair dos if other people think Witness is 8A. Not sure how I fit on monkeyboy’s scale though as I was neither fit nor strong when I did it, I must have worked a very good sequence (the two vids I’ve seen of other folk on it do indeed use crap sequences). For a PE/Stamina 8A trav in the peak for me Stamina Band is the obvious reference problem and WtC having considerably easier moves and being less sustained is much of the basis for my view on the grade.

[dave]

If Mirfs was bottom end 7c would that not leave enough room for Witness to still be sub-8a?

[monkey boy]

You fit on the scale of being good and trying very hard Jon! You are right though it is definitely easier than Staminaband and I think that is considered to be pretty low in the grade for 8a.

[rainbow]

Seen the video to this and it does look very good indeed. Thought it might involve some rules but looks natural and logical and traverses that part of the wall using everything including holds on Burly etc. Doing Witness then finishing up this would be a nice link up and surely worthy of proper 8a. Maybe Witness should have gone in as hard 7c+.