[Bobtheboulderer]

balance - climb more vertical and slabby stuff where it's harder to 'cheat' by doing every move dynamically or jumping for holds. Anything that forces you to take your time. (focus on your feet!!). Whats your general technique like? Do you do lots of flagging, drop knees, heelhooks etc?

Technique is definitely subpar. Vertical climbing is defiitely more difficult for me than sloped or even horizontal walls. I'm not sure about flagging, I do incorporate that stuff, but a lot of time my center of gravity still seems off. I do use my hips and hang low and such, but I am quite wobbly a lot. drop knees are going fine. Heelhooks have been going better lately, but I keep sliding of holds still some times. 

On the shaky thing, as in cramping up or just running out of strength quickly? You might have a magnesium deficiency or something like that. Might be worth looking into

It's my core I suppose. it's the same when I do press ups on rings. I get violently shaky very quickly. A good climber said to me that it's those little muscles that you're working out, so I guess that I haven't developed those? He said to me that it was my core that was probably insufficient which is weird because I do have developed a six-pack (I'm very thin so maybe that doesn't mean that much) and also obliques.

But I have this weird muscle developed on the left side of my body. This chart)  calls it the inguinal ligament. But what is so strange is that this 'muscle' has only developed on my left side and not on my right side. Maybe this is part of my core problem?

I also tried yoga, but I quit, because it was painfully hard to me. I couldn't do the moves as my body is like a plank of wood. It's the same when I deadhang and try to get my legs vertical. I can't do it. Not because of my core, but because I can't get them that high. 

[Bobtheboulderer]

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

[bendavison]

He already bouldering 3x a week which is optimal

Is it fuck

2 years in - seriously ?

Yes! And why shame on me? Because I have used a fingerboard a lot? I barely did any fingerboarding until after climbing 8c.

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

Do you mean in pockets or in slings? Either way, but especially in pockets, it doesn't necessarily mean your finger strength is mediocre. I'd say that's quite an advanced 'exercise'.

I don't have a clue what that ligament on your left side might mean. Though I suspect its not the reason you haven't improved for half a year.

[kelvin]

my finger strength is mediocre. I can't do a pull up with just my middle fingers. They seem to lack in strength.

I can manage two - and I climb even lower grades than you. I think it's pretty irrelevant.

So I asked a similar question a month or so back on here. Had advice from Ben and Moose to go climbing, lots said get a coach... others said sort my pullups ( I can do only three). Just going climbing hadn't worked for me, I also knew how to train but perhaps I wasn't training the right things. So I went and saw a coach, who focused on movement...

It may not be what's holding you back but he spotted things that non of my mates had noticed. I'd get in the right position, had neat footwork, fingers were passable, as was endurance but I got nowhere - I'd blame inflexibility (I am) weakness (I am), started yoga (was rubbish) but it seems I just didn't initiate any momentum. So every move felt harder than it should, because it was. Happily, I can now 'just go climbing' because I have a handle on how to climb, which I didn't before.

So yeah, try harder than you have, rip the piss more and eat ever more cake. Go to Font soon.

[Oldmanmatt]

Going back to the OP...

Two years are nothing.

You've plateaued for a few months, at most. A bad cold can cause that.

It will take months to develop the strength around the weaknesses you have already identified (even if you build/strengthen the muscles, it will take much longer for the tendons etc to catch up).

In short, it's way too early to worry.

Training, as described in painstaking and confusing detail in so many threads on here; is never wasted effort.
But...
Just buy the "9 out of 10" book and worry about the detail when you're building up for your first 8A, the year after next.

Getting a coach is always worth while.

But so is getting a mate to film you climbing (or better, use a tripod) and reviewing your own style. If you can, video others on the same problem.

Coach is better, camera is cheaper.

Get out and get some inspiration outdoors.

Or maybe even take a break?

Sometimes the best way through a plateau, is to do something else for a while.

[abarro81]

Note sure what you're driving at Simon? If your body can't handle more bouldering sessions then I'd wager it can't handle much additional fingerboarding either... and in the low-mid 6s I know which I think is likely to be the one best ditched.

[petejh]

So I went and saw a coach, who focused on movement...

It may not be what's holding you back but he spotted things that non of my mates had noticed. I'd get in the right position, had neat footwork, fingers were passable, as was endurance but I got nowhere - I'd blame inflexibility (I am) weakness (I am), started yoga (was rubbish) but it seems I just didn't initiate any momentum. So every move felt harder than it should, because it was. Happily, I can now 'just go climbing' because I have a handle on how to climb, which I didn't before.

I'll rip the piss.. Kelvin, how much did it cost to have a coach to tell you to use momentum for climbing? Because you could have read that for a few fuck-alls in a number of well-known books which have been around for ages, or got the info for free from a library or one of a hundred blogs out there detailing efficient climbing technique / use of momentum / lower body initiation of moves.

There's a movement in climbing towards seeing coaching as the panacea for all improvement, which is well-intentioned and I partly agree with it for some situations and levels of climbing. But... being a climbing coach of early-stage climbers (sub font/french 7) in the UK appears from the outside to be like shooting fish in a barrel. A sure-fire cash cow of people seeking improvement who don't require any special knowledge on the coach's part in order to satisfy. The coaching appears to be little more doling out very simple and well-known ubiquitous advice on movement and training technique, advice that can be got by anybody for free with a little independent thought.
I saw a coach once, just after I'd climbed my first 8a (get me). I'd probably have got to 8a sooner if I'd seen him earlier, but I don't think I'd have benefited so much when I was climbing in the 6s - sport or bouldering. That stage was all about self-directed learning and motivation to progress coming from within. You can argue that it's better to be directed in the 'right' direction but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm wondering - based only on the number of people who post on ukb and some snippets of conversation at crags - if there's some dumbing-down process going on similar to how the ubiquitous GPS has eroded people's ability to use a map.

O.P. - Seriously, there's never been so much access to good quality information about technique and fitness for climbing, and there's never been better facilities for indoor training and indoor climbing. Yet there seems an unending number of people posting on here who claim to be struggling to work out how to attain a standard around the low font 7s. When I started, back in prehistory, low font 7 was considered an everyday level that any keen climber would expect to attain with a bit of application. All the info required was available it just took some motivation to look for it and apply it.

There isn't any special exercise required to climb low font 7. You aren't going to discover some special weakness that only you have, target it with a special exercise that someone on ukb tells you about and then suddenly find you're a font 7A climber. The only ingredients that matter are motivation and application of that motivation. If you haven't got that or can't work out how to grow it then you aren't going to get anywhere.



Rant over. Pulled a muscle in my back and am laying around when I should be training endurance hence I'm grumpy as fuck.

[abarro81]

Whilst I agree with some of that, I'm not sure I agree with it that much if you don't know people who climb reasonably well and will impart their wisdom readily. I recall the first time someone pointed out to me that on steep ground you want to try to twist on straight arms rather than pull front on (I was climbing about F6a routes at this point). It was a fucking revelation. I'm sure I would have realised it eventually, but I dare say if I'd had more input along those lines at an early stage then I would have got better much quicker - drop knees, twisting, using momentum, generating movement from the lower limbs, hip positions etc. Even learning how to learn - how to think about moves, movement, why you're failing etc. It's basic, but basic can be good - after all, we get taught how to read, write, do maths.. We might pick these things up, like we learn our first words, but we learn them better with input from those who know already...

[Will Hunt]

Forget everything that these idiots have told you. Do this. Then do it the next day. Then the next day until you reach 8C.
https://myspace.com/masonkrochta/video/ab-ripper-x/50789881

[36chambers]

Forget everything that these idiots have told you. Do this. Then do it the next day. Then the next day until you reach 8C.
https://myspace.com/masonkrochta/video/ab-ripper-x/50789881

"Jason, nice my brother"

[kelvin]

I'll rip the piss.. Kelvin, how much did it cost to have a coach to tell you to use momentum for climbing? Because you could have read that for a few fuck-alls in a number of well-known books which have been around for ages, or got the info for free from a library or one of a hundred blogs out there detailing efficient climbing technique / use of momentum / lower body initiation of moves.

Yep. Got the books. Read them. Have decent climbers as mates, who like most climbers, try to apply what works for them to you. Blogs all bookmarked. I was banging my head against a brick wall constantly and frustrated as fuck.

Quote myself on UKB  "Cheers for the replies - I've considered getting a proper plan from a coach but to be honest, it feels a bit daft when I climb the sort of grades I do, I'm not exactly going to set Tom Randall's lattice board on fire". So I agreed with you Pete.... and dear god do I like to read. I love it. (Mostly sci-fi tho). Self-coached climber, 9 out of 10... blog after blog.

I learnt more in the first three hour coaching session than I had in the last three years. The next session was a bit of a revelation. So yeah, now I can take Moose's advice and just go and climb - I finally understand how to go about that. Sure, I'd have rather not forked out for coaching and spent the money on a trip somewhere but it's now been two or three weeks since the sessions and seems like money well spent. As beneficial as a set of brand new blancos for the slate... it'll take me years to put all the new stuff I learnt into practice, which means years of improvement. Yes, I'd agree with you that many 'coaches' dole out generic advice to the punter masses that amounts to no more use than all allezs added up but the two sessions I had were far removed from that.

I thought mentioning momentum to the OP was worthwhile Pete, no one ever put me right about my lack of it.

[petejh]

I'll go halves with you on the £80 we should get for bringing those groundbreaking concepts to people's attention.

I remember first reading about initiation, momentum and twisting in etc. and then being well psyched about going to the wall to experiment with these new concepts. I was that saddo who did eyes-closed top-roping up the kids slabs to learn better how to initiate moves from the knee, hips or feet. It didn't require a coach to teach me what I could read about and then experiment with on my own...

I did gain a lot from coaching when I was in the higher grades however - like you, the one day with a coach (Ste Mac) that I had felt like it taught me more than I'd got out of any number of days climbing.

[kelvin]

I'll go halves with you on the £80 we should get for bringing those groundbreaking concepts to people's attention.

Don't forget London rates are dearer... I get the biggest share.

30 years of going up and down dodgy ladders and rickety steps with at least one open tin of paint in hand - I'd pretty much drilled myself to not use momentum when climbing. Spilt paint costs money.

Rockovers - mate's advice usually consists of "get all your weight over the higher leg and stand up". So I did. Couldn't stand up  Using the lower foot to spring from was utterly alien to me for the above reasons, both the customer and their carpet would end up pissed off and I'd probably end up in A&E. I also played rugby, in the scrum and all the initiation of movement when trying to push the other mob back came from the bent leg... again, years of playing, training and coaching. So when it came to rockovers, I did what my harder climbing mates told me - got my weight over my leg and tried to stand up. No one ever said ' spring from the lower foot and if I read it, it didn't register.
Oh boy, did it feel alien at first but on the third climb up the wall, I was using side monos for balance and springing up, instead of pulling hard with both hands and my higher foot.

Maybe a young kid wouldn't need to be told that, or a natural climber but I did.

[petejh]

Well, you were another easy pay-day for some supposed 'coach'. I could have taught you that straight after I'd read about and taught myself to do it for the first time - I'm doubtful that it's knowledge worthy of the rates that self-styled coaches charge for it. Although I see yours and Alex's point about peers not helping.

Shark/Habrich - How about a sub-forum for the training sub-forum: 'Sub-7 climbers' advice'
To stop clogging up UKB with sub-7 climbers asking the same basic questions ad infinitum.

[rodma]

I prefer these threads than ones from experienced climbers asking people to diagnose and advise on rehab based upon their own personal "I've just broken my fingers" type diagnosis and then a week later "the pain has gone they're healed" revelation . What, healed from a bit of ice, they weren't injured to start with.

 Sorry, but I'm oldish and grumpy and I like that people are asking for training advice.

[Sasquatch]

Self awareness is very hard for most people, so they have very little actual awareness of their own body kinesthetics.  Often seeing yourself climb is one of the best things you can do(video yourself and a mate doing a problem-I bet you can see differences in the video you may realize in person). 

I think most grade 6 and even low-7 climbers (both sport and boulder) have very little awareness of how much climbing most grade 8 climbers do.  As such, they see the FBing and Campusing and other non-climbing training, and think they need more of that because they don't see the actual climbing volume.  That said, alot of it is also about climbing at the right intensity. 

So when folks are saying you need to climb more, it's both true and incredibly unhelpful.  You need to climb more of the right stuff.  Change gears for a bit.  Climb at a different wall with different route setters, climb outside, get on a rope instead of bouldering, gain a more diverse climbing background, and you'll quite quickly find yourself in the low 7's. 

As an aside regarding the dynamic vs. static movement:

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

The question is how much of your body is moving and can you stop your movement prior to latching a hold.  I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing.  It happens as a result of mental blocks(fear-justified or not), lack of precision (sticking a pocket or a jam), or insufficient contact strength.  Look at yourself and ask why you move statically so you understand what to work on.  Fear is a mental aspect that can be trained - look at the rock warriors way as a starting point.  Lack of precision can be trained.  Contact strength can be trained.  But if fear is holding you back, then you can train precision and contact strength all you like, but you won't get better.  Same goes for the other aspects.

[abarro81]

I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing. 

Onsighting. That is all.

[kelvin]

I'd clog the whole board if I asked for advice on all my injuries 

[petejh]

I don't understand how you climb hard enough to injure yourself 

(from someone who pulled his back out between endurance laps on a 6a)

[Oldmanmatt]

Self awareness is very hard for most people, so they have very little actual awareness of their own body kinesthetics.  Often seeing yourself climb is one of the best things you can do(video yourself and a mate doing a problem-I bet you can see differences in the video you may realize in person). 

I think most grade 6 and even low-7 climbers (both sport and boulder) have very little awareness of how much climbing most grade 8 climbers do.  As such, they see the FBing and Campusing and other non-climbing training, and think they need more of that because they don't see the actual climbing volume.  That said, alot of it is also about climbing at the right intensity. 

So when folks are saying you need to climb more, it's both true and incredibly unhelpful.  You need to climb more of the right stuff.  Change gears for a bit.  Climb at a different wall with different route setters, climb outside, get on a rope instead of bouldering, gain a more diverse climbing background, and you'll quite quickly find yourself in the low 7's. 

As an aside regarding the dynamic vs. static movement:

All movement is dynamic-otherwise you're not moving. 

The question is how much of your body is moving and can you stop your movement prior to latching a hold.  I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing.  It happens as a result of mental blocks(fear-justified or not), lack of precision (sticking a pocket or a jam), or insufficient contact strength.  Look at yourself and ask why you move statically so you understand what to work on.  Fear is a mental aspect that can be trained - look at the rock warriors way as a starting point.  Lack of precision can be trained.  Contact strength can be trained.  But if fear is holding you back, then you can train precision and contact strength all you like, but you won't get better.  Same goes for the other aspects.

^^^^^
This.
And what I said earlier.

[mrjonathanr]

I'm unconvinced about the value of training and technique advice for people who have only fairly recently started to learn about how to climb. Not the principle of advice mind, but the actual information gleaned.

The reason is that it's in the abstract. What a book tells you may be sound, but you may not grasp its application properly. Or not as properly as when more experienced mates are rolling about in laughter at your misadvised efforts and don't stop till you start getting it right.

Having skilled more experienced climbers take the piss whilst you are actually climbing is 10,000 times more useful than a snippet from a book you only vaguely understand.

It's how we all used to learn...but if that scenario isn't applicable, a coach will do the same thing. With less mockery, but more wonga.

[Sasquatch]

I will happily argue that there is no good reason for static climbing. 

Onsighting. That is all.

Fair enough, and in particular dangerous on sighting, but even then how much actual "static" climbing are you doing.  I'd argue the nuance of controlled dynamic vs. actual static, but now we're getting into very fine nuance at a high level.  Not something the bulk of sub-7 climbers should really be concerned with.

I'm unconvinced about the value of training and technique advice for people who have only fairly recently started to learn about how to climb. Not the principle of advice mind, but the actual information gleaned.

The reason is that it's in the abstract. What a book tells you may be sound, but you may not grasp its application properly. Or not as properly as when more experienced mates are rolling about in laughter at your misadvised efforts and don't stop till you start getting it right.

Having skilled more experienced climbers take the piss whilst you are actually climbing is 10,000 times more useful than a snippet from a book you only vaguely understand.

It's how we all used to learn...but if that scenario isn't applicable, a coach will do the same thing. With less mockery, but more wonga.

I fully agree.  Part of this that can be applied to self assessment is the cheerful and whole hearted embracement of failure as part of climbing. It's how you actually learn and progress. 

To the OP.  You've been "plateaued" at a grade for 7 months.  Shark has been projecting a single routes for 3-4 years (maybe longer).  Yet he's still learning and refining sequences and movement on that route after all this time.  I've had projects that have lasted longer than a decade despite doing all of the moves.  NEVER underestimate the complexity climbing offers and the potential for learning some tiny/subtle nuance that can make the difference between sending vs failure. 

[kelvin]

I don't understand how you climb hard enough to injure yourself 

(from someone who pulled his back out between endurance laps on a 6a)

I never injure myself climbing... just training   

[shark]

I also tried yoga, but I quit, because it was painfully hard to me. I couldn't do the moves as my body is like a plank of wood.

I wonder if this isnt indicative of the real problem? you try something - you find it hard - you give up too quickly. Somebody striving for improvement should ideally see this as an opportunity and do those hard-for-you yoga positions twice a day. Is this same with your bouldering ? ask your mates. And do some fingerboarding 

[krymson]

I agree with Kelvin that coaches can definitely be useful regardless of your level of knowledge. I've read all the books there are to be read and they've helped me loads, but every so often I still have things pointed out to me that makes me realize I've been doing something wrong for a while.

I've been climbing close to 5 years now but only last year a friend pointed out that i could do a drop knee for this one move that i was strenuously flagging on-- lo and behold i realized i had been massively underusing drop knees for most of my climbing career

That's an extreme(and slightly embarrassing!) example but basically im saying reading books is good but its hard to be completely self aware enough to always be your own best coach. It can definitely be worth paying for a coaching session if you feel you are stuck and are having trouble figuring out what to focus on to improve.