[Nigel]

I'm sendin' out a call for any *useful* information that people have on the Bowderstone; Lakesbloc could do with a topo and I'd prefer it to be top drawer and done in consultation with local boffins and visiting Joe's alike.

So boffins - what's the score with Impropa Opera, the 'V8' description in the FRCC guide seems a bit tough for V8, I heard the hold you go up to with your right hand recently became worse, is this true? Also, what does "Grand Opera" do. And what goes down with all the "variations"? And where does IO sit start start from?

Adam's Problem (slopey ramp) - have the finishing ramp holds got dirty, or from the high pocket on Power Pinch does it drop down a bit to use the IO crimps?

Inaudible Vaudeville - totally eliminate or is the toe-hook on Bowderiser 'in', a la Malcolm Smith in Stick It?

And to anyone else, any grades to offer so we can get a consensus? Picnic Sarcastic, Power Pinch, Impropa, The Crack, The Rib, etc., whaddya reckon?

Oh, and what about a bit of history? TC, Trev?

Cheers for any info...

[jonP]

The hold on Impropa Opera broke a couple of years ago - I think it used to be V8 before this.  The hold seems to break every few years - wouldn't suprise me if it had broken again since I was last there (October last year).

Grades :

Power Pinch - V8 (or V7 using the big jug out left)
Coming up for Air - V7 (harder than it used to be since the foothold broke but still V7)
The Crack - V4
Crack Direct - V4 (much more pleasant than the non-direct!);
the thing that starts at the Crack Direct but goes right - V6
the low traverse from the crack to the arete - V7

[samJ]

Don't know if this will help but here's a little bit of history:

http://www.thenmc.org.uk/pages/hut/hut5.php

[Nigel]

Cheers Jon, good stuff, much appreciated. So, Power Pinch V8, any raise on that?

Thanks a lot Sam, some quotable quotes in there ("...erected an ugly house for an old lady to show the rock...")!

[Jim]

I thought power pinch was V9

[jonP]

I was going to post something like "if Power Pinch is V9 then it's the only V9 I've done", but then I remembered V8+ ...

[Nigel]

Yes sorry Jon but we do use V8+ up this way. There is no way Power Pinch is V9, so the question is is it V8 or V8+?

[a dense loner]

if this is any help i have no idea wot grade it is. so that makes me on a par with everyone else it seems  :wink:

[dave]

i say play safe and give it 8c.

[a dense loner]

no, it's only 8c if you use the intermediate. without i believe it's 8c+ but you have to get permission not to use this hold off the landowner :D

[Nigel]

Please don't hijack this thread, the world needs a decent Bowderstone topo.

[jonP]

Please don't hijack this thread, the world needs a decent Bowderstone topo.

I'd certainly agree with that!  Ask the locals for advice - they're bound to know loads of good eliminates & variations.

Has the full traverse of the ladder face been done yet?  It makes Staminaband look like a stroll  in the park.

[a dense loner]

sorry nigel. am off to shootin the shit then. power pinch font 7b+, do what u want wi your V's  :D

[Doylo]

power pinch is standard v8. I was up there this week but got frustrated cos didn't have a good guide and didn't know what was in or out. Won't be going back

[Nigel]

:nopity: We are trying on the topo front though, as you can see big boy.

You might be right about Power Pinch being V8 (what holds did you use?) but you're definately wrong that the Stone isn't worth it, beat's the Old King's any day! Come on, I think the Cave's good!

Did you do anything else? Offer a grade on anything, Picnic Sarcastic or something?

[Doylo]

yeah its good climbing but i can't be fucking arsed trying to work out whats in and what isn't. At the end of the day they don't have to be eliminate, its just tradition.  I did power pinch first with the good hold on the left, v7 or something, eliminating this hold makes it harder but not better in my opinion. Picnic Sarcastic is dead good, v8 from a sitter? I also did bloodsucker but with the good hold on the left again. prob 7/8, mingin problem anyway, i didn't have a clue what goes on with impropa opera, looked nails. Dunnings problem round the back looks good (repeated by Katz recently btw) and the project which a few folk have been getting close to is also a cool problem.

[jonP]

yeah its good climbing but i can't be fucking arsed trying to work out whats in and what isn't.

For most of the easier problems (i.e. less than V9), everything is in.  The  no-jug-on-the-left variation of Power Pinch is the exception.

There is no way Power Pinch is V9, so the question is is it V8 or V8+?

I'd say V8, but I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about!

[Nigel]

Bon effort the Katz, what an undisputed beast! Did he confirm V12? I only had a quick play but it seemed a bit "Swiss" for V12 if you know what I mean, probably wrong though! Agreed that project looks amazing, should get CJD on the case, probably "suit him sir".

Cheers for the grades on Power Pinch and Bloodsucker the "easy"/"sensible" way. You're right it doesn't have to be eliminate so why the hell did you do Bloodsucker??? Especially given that horrible hole. Couldn't help fingering it eh! Dirty bastard. Picnic Sarcastic Sitter seems like a proper V8 I'll give you that. Did Impropa yesterday, I'll offer solid V8+, anyone else?

[a dense loner]

wait a minute, you're all offering grades on power pinch n not knowin what holds to use. am i readin this right?

[Doylo]

i saw stick it when i got home dense, gave me the knowledge. I should of friggin watched it before i went! I reckon that project will be send to hell before long  :wink: Dunno what katz thought of the grade of that problem seven cee plus probably  :D

[a dense loner]

i must apologize for being a raving cock. i wrote about how could you grade probs when you din't know what holds you were using but, wait for it, i din't see the second page. i prostate myself b4 you both, nige n chris. i must be as blind as a  :batangel:

[Nigel]

Aye steady on now big man, I know what holds to use, in fact I'm so pure I haven't even bothered to do Power Pinch the easy way yet! In fact I haven't even touched that hold.

Look at me!!!! :wiggle:  

[a dense loner]

it seems i'm no help here :cry:

[Nigel]

You could be if you give me a grade for any of the problems you've done there? Preferably a grade that isn't 8c  :roll:

[a dense loner]

i didn't do a single prob, couldn't pull on. must have had somethin to do with climbin like a dog wi two dicks at woodwell, oer't road n trowbarrow the day b4. fingers where killin. wait a minute i've got codfinger now... :evil: