Would, as Andy said earlier "The only place the name and grade of this non route were ever recorded was in an entirely private early draft of my script for the definitive BMC guide", be what would be counted as a reliable source document? If so, I presume it was referred to in said guidebook and Andy Popp thanked for his contribution?
Alan, you're basically saying that it's your word against Andy's. In the absence of a response from Andy and in light of the revelations about the disparity between Rockfax's actual contributions to the NWBF and those you represented, do you think you can expect to have any credibility here?
Nonetheless, I think it's pretty ungracious how to begin with there was the call to "reduce the limestone coverage" after Pete sort of got the wrong end of the stick with the databases. To begin with it seemed pretty dick-ish of RF, but Alan has cut a load of stuff. Yes he has still included a lot of the popular routes on the popular buttresses, but anyone can find those by using NWR and the Wiki, as I have done.
Then everyone was angry that Alan had said he had donated to "bolt funds" (the exact terminology used I think). So when it was found that the last time he donated to a North Walian Bolt Fund was when he had done the previous guide (That Pete is using to make his guide - ironic??) there is an outrage.
I'm pretty sure Alan said he had donated to bolt funds in general, and if you look on the RF website, when you go to buy a book, you are given the option of donating to the dorset bolt fund or the ACT... evil, I know.
So now that Alan said he'll donate profits (and no doubt add the NWBF into the RF checkout system) and reduce coverage, everyone still has a hissy fit! Pretty unbelievable, though highly entertaining.
I have read both threads with glee. Pete doesn't need the money (you said so yourself) Alan has kids and employees to pay. Yep, it's nice to have shiny bolts, and Pete has done a mega effort putting a handline into the diamond (RF wont profit from this) and all the other stuff, yet you all still use UKC for free (Even Pete does!!), probably have one or two RF guides.
The only problem I have with the RF NWC is I can't see what the point in it is, when there is NWR which, to my mind is as good as anything. Having come to North Wales 4 years ago with one clutched to my breast it has served as my Bible ever since, and yes I've bought the 'Beris, Big G, Trem-dog, Slate definitives, but it's still a book I reach for time and time again. I feel more sorry for Pantontino than NWL authors!
... in fact Pete's lack of grace at Alan's reduction of the Lime section and promise to give money to the bolt fund have made me think twice, to begin with I could see his point (even though i think he jumped the gun a bit) but now I think you are being a bit childish, Pete. Alan has said he believes there wasn't room for two definitives, so didn't make one. He hasn't really encroached on your definitive term with his lime section, but has cut it and pledged money to the bolt fund. what more do you want?? A handjob?
I think this is further proof that all climbers are, essentially on the internet, bet all of you haters are lovely in real life! Pete's a bit surly but seemed alright, and Alan seems pretty nice too, (having not spent much time with either).
Maybe we should remember that there are people starving in the world who probably dont give 2 shits about some bolts in the second worst climbing venue in North Wales
My girlfriends a cancer research nurse, I've just told her about the guidebook and the comparison. This is what she said "what there's climbing in Wales?"
Did someone ask for a mental health nurse or a shag with mental health nurse. Either way my fees are reasonable.
I don't think people "need to take a step back" as Tom put it when he wadded gme. This is exactly the sort of thing that should be thrashed out on a climbing forum.
Quote from: webbo on June 27, 2013, 08:32:13 pmDid someone ask for a mental health nurse or a shag with mental health nurse. Either way my fees are reasonable.Your prices were reasonable, but I thought your hands were a bit rough. (just some feedback)
the best thing about all this whole rather juvenile thread is how it has bought to light what UKBers really are. You are exactly the same as the UKCers you despise, which in turn makes you worse as you believe you are so much better
The answer would be to only shop at your local grocer/butcher/fishmonger etc.... but where are all those now?