[slackline]

*Even the IMF said 'oops', turns out austerity has cost us £70bn, and this new find is a real gem: http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/austerity-programme-proved-to-be-nonsense-based-on-a-spreadsheet-mistake/

  Thats a good case for not teaching how to use spreadsheets/office software in schools (IT for a number of recent years), but instead teaching programming skills (e.g. Raspberry Pi approach).

[Pantontino]

David Miliband was in favour of removing the charitable status of private schools - so, not quite the Blairite he'd been painted as!

Effects of which would be? Bearing in mind:

UK independent schools receive approximately £100m tax relief due to charitable status whilst returning £300m of fee assistance in public benefit and relieving the maintained sector (state schools) of £2bn of costs

The easiest place to recoup that tax would be either a) increase fees, or b) to provide less 'fee assistance in public benefit'... Either way making private education more expensive, and even more exclusive. Whilst removing the motivation for school to provide benefits to the wider community.

So entirely self-defeating in other words bar getting one over on the rich, even if it makes us worse off... Or have I missed something?

Wouldn't it be a better idea to force private schools to increase the provision of scholarships?

It would be a better idea, but only if you accept that private schools are an inherently good thing for society as a whole.

I can see how they are a very good thing for those who can afford to go, plus the small number of kids who make it in on a free scholarship, but beyond that I'm still struggling to see them as anything more than divisive enforcers of privilege - let's face it, the picture Andy has painted contradicts almost every positive claim you have made.

You have suggested that private schools are diverse in character - I accept that prior to this discussion I have not fully understood this. However it seems evident that the cliches and stereotypes are true in a lot of private schools.

As I said earlier I would much prefer it if the good that private schools do (particularly the bit about helping geeky kids) was done via a different mechanism.

Bit here on some Scottish private schools getting their wrists slapped  by the charity regulator:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20986045

[Johnny Brown]

It would be a better idea, but only if...

...we weren't dealing with reality. If you don't agree with private schools on principle that's fine, but don't pretend taking away their charitable status will achieve anything positive. The current situation which has evolved over hundreds of years and is now part of the fabric of society, if we had the option of starting again as a socialist utopia I'd take be only too keen to give it a punt. I wonder if Dr Shakamoto does social engineering?

[andy_e]

Yeah, but onry in big city rike Reeds.

[Pantontino]

It would be a better idea, but only if...

...we weren't dealing with reality. If you don't agree with private schools on principle that's fine, but don't pretend taking away their charitable status will achieve anything positive. The current situation which has evolved over hundreds of years and is now part of the fabric of society, if we had the option of starting again as a socialist utopia I'd take be only too keen to give it a punt. I wonder if Dr Shakamoto does social engineering?

I'm not that bothered about charitable status (it's a fairly minor issue in the grand scheme of things) - but I am bothered about your flippant dismissal of any alternatives to private education as mere socialist fantasy. Just because something has existed for hundreds of years doesn't make it right.

A quick glance at our not too far away neighbours in Finland shows that there are far better ways to run an education system:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

"and there are no private schools in Finland."

This notion may seem difficult for an American to digest, but it's true. Only a small number of independent schools exist in Finland, and even they are all publicly financed. None is allowed to charge tuition fees. There are no private universities, either. This means that practically every person in Finland attends public school, whether for pre-K or a Ph.D.

[Johnny Brown]

It wasn't intended as a flippant dismissal, though whilst cycling home it did occur you might take it like that. As I've said repeatedly I don't think there's much point discussing their demise unless you have a clear, proven pathway to 'a different mechanism'. Otherwise you are tackling the problem from the wrong direction. I don't accept that they are as negative or divisive as folk would like to believe - but 'public school boy' is a snappy label with lots of connotations - positive or negative depending on your upbringing.

Interesting article, though it is rather light on what they actually do or how they got there, or where they were before... Seems like Scandinavian countries are always the exemplar where equality is concerned.

[slackline]

  I was flicking through a recent copy of Sheffield free fanzine/rag and noticed an advert/spread for Sheffield Equality Group for any denizens who are keen to find out more.  They seem to have meetings/events

(Although the first graph they use on "The Solution" page is utterly pointless having no scale on either axis ).

[slackline]

With regards to "Getting your children into the best school"....Rubbishing the Opposition  from Chris Morris' Blue Jam Series 3 Episode 1 @ 08:20  

"It would be nice if we didn't have to do this, but it does work"

[slackline]

For those interested in social mobility and living in London...

Royal Statistical Society : Measuring social class and social mobility: recent evidence and debates 29th May 2013.